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Hardest Alliance and Horde capital city to invade lore-wise
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Post by
Adamsm
I still would like you to answer my questions about Stormrage though. I would rather not lose an opportunity at a spoiler =p.Once the tree was cleansed, Malfurion used it to attack the Nightmare forces that were going after those who were awake, with the plant life striking at them and shattering them; from roots rising up to wrap around them, to branches striking at them, to seeds being launched and trapping them: pretty much what all the druids can do anyways. If the Archdruid is there defending his home, you'd expect the same thing to happen against the enemies trying to destroy the city and the land.
As for why it never happened with Nordrassil... who knows? Maybe because it's not an actual city and home like Teldrassil is; plus, it did have enough power when combined with the wisps to blow the hell out of Archimonde.
I only made the comment that they don't have access to the same forest destroying weapon they did in the Second War; it would be harder this time.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Vaeku
Not really. Have you noticed the walls separating each section of the city? Those have multiple portcullises that can be shut off at will, to trap or separate a hostile force.
That's true. But they wouldn't be able to shut them off forever.
If they shut off both entrances the city would be impenetrable. The Exodar survived smashing into the planet at high speeds. I doubt there is anything that can destroy it. And since the Exodar is filled with one of the most magically adept races in Azeroth, who are good at portals... yeah, it would be a bugger to take.
The Exodar barely survived the crash. A lot of ship was scattered over the islands, and the remaing large chunk is still heavily damaged.
Now, yes, the naaru would definitely be able to help with the city's defenses, but it's only one naaru, and he might not be able to keep it up forever. (I was going to bring up the thing about the blood elves getting ready to invade Shatt, and that the naaru were there, but the naaru probably knew the blood elves were going to lay down their weapons and thus didn't really put up any defenses...)
I really don't think the Exodar ISN'T impenetrable... It's still a mangled hunk of metal that smashed into Azeroth. But now that I think about it, it could definitely survived for awhile (and if the elements help Nobundo and the shaman...)
Post by
Skreeran
Alright, we've concluded that all cities can be taken.
What we want to know is: which are the hardest?
Teldrassil would be up there, and Ironforge, and Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff.
Post by
Monday
Orgrimmar? 3 entrances into the city would suck to defend.
Post by
Adamsm
There is a second/third entrance into Ironforge, however. Technically, that tunnel that can be found in the IF airport goes into the city itself, so invaders could just as easily attempt to use that.But that is fairly easy to seal off; same with the Tram entrance.
Post by
306612
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Post by
Rankkor
how can anyone ignore Orgrimmar's defensive capabilities?
while I don't like the new make-up of the city, New Orgrimmar is one tough nut to crack.
first off, all (and I mean ALL) sectors of the city can now be sealed off by HUGE steel gates, every single one of them. if the valley of spirits fall, it can be sealed off from the rest of the city, should valley of honor fall, it can be sealed off from the rest. repeat for all the other sectors.
not only that, Orgrimmar sits in a canyon people, it's buried inside a natural rift, do you know how easy it would be for the shaman to simply move the boulders above the city and seal it off from the air?
don't say it's imposible, today's orgrimmar has the cleft of shadows quite open, just go and look to the sky, now do the same in cataclysm, the cleft of shadows has been sealed off, the rocks surrounding it were moved by the shaman to close it up. This can be repeated in the drag, and the valley of wisdom.
the valley of honor/spirits/strength are too open to seal them off like that, but those are the sectors with the massive gates, there to block them off should they fall in enemy hands, plus the draenoshar blockade has a massive garrison of troops defending it, it's not as easy to take that gate as it seems, remember that there are 4 massive towers (most likely with cannons) defending both the frontal gate, and the 2 rear gates.
should an enemy force invade one of the gates, and take one of the outer sectors (honor/spirit/strenght) that sector can be sealed off from the rest, the non-combatants can go to the inner sectors (cleft of shadows/drag/valley of wisdom) then they close the gates to seal them off by land, and the shamans move the boulders of the cliffs to seal them off by air.
from a Tactical POV, New Orgrimmar is one hell of a fortress, and let's not forget the really nearby bilgewater harbor with it's MASSIVE cannon out there.
Post by
Skreeran
from a Tactical POV, New Orgrimmar is one hell of a fortress, and let's not forget the really nearby bilgewater harbor with it's MASSIVE cannon out there.Unfortunately, like any city, hunger is its greatest weakness. If the Alliance could siege the city and prevent any food from getting in, I don't think Orgrimmar has the necessary food production to sustain such a garrison for long. They might have vast food stores, but they don't have refrigerators, so they'd only be able to rely on non-perishable food, and eventually they would run out.
Now, I don't think the Horde would stand to be sieged for very long. I doubt they would just sit inside and starve... rather, their pride and warrior spirit would tempt them to pull a Blackrock Spire and pour out into the enemy forces. The problem with that, though, is that then you are leaving your place of strength and putting yourself on the enemy's terms. Granted, you can retreat back into the city, and that's nice, but in a siege it would come down to fighting the enemy in the fields around Orgrimmar or starving inside it. I don't think the Horde would be able to defend inside the city if the Alliance is using hunger as its weapon.
Post by
Vaeku
not only that, Orgrimmar sits in a canyon people, it's buried inside a natural rift, do you know how easy it would be for the shaman to simply move the boulders above the city and seal it off from the air?
And the alliance shaman would be able to move the boulders out of the way. Plus, you're talking about rocks, not saronite. Rocks can be destroyed fairly easily.
Post by
Rankkor
not only that, Orgrimmar sits in a canyon people, it's buried inside a natural rift, do you know how easy it would be for the shaman to simply move the boulders above the city and seal it off from the air?
And the alliance shaman would be able to move the boulders out of the way. Plus, you're talking about rocks, not saronite. Rocks can be destroyed fairly easily.
ok.
A: the shaman of the alliance wound't be able to move the boulders, if the earth spirit moves the rocks at the request of a horde shaman, if the only result of moving said boulders is the death of non-combatants the rock will not yield, to put it on more practical terms, if I'm a shaman, and I say to this rock, "hey, move over here, I got civilians that need protection, guard us from our enemy", and another shaman tries to say to the same rock "hey my enemy is behind you, move", who do you think the rock is gonna listen to?
the one who asked first of course, maybe the alliance shaman could cause an earthquake, or move newer boulders, but the ones that the horde shaman moved in the first place will not move just because.
and B: I'm talking about rocks, not saronite, that being said, I'm talking about MASSIVE ROCKS, Ironforge is made 90% of rock and look how impregnable it is, rocks aren't as resistant as metals, but they are much bigger and thus can sustain massive damage.
@skree, I guess u got a point with the hunger, but this applies to all the towns and cities, if you manage to put a large blockade to prevent reinforcements or provitions any town no matter how imprenable, will fall (the undercity is the exeption, the forsaken don't need to eat xD)
but we're discussing from a military assault wich towns are more suceptible to an atack, for example Silvermoon is a nightmare to defend, the whole place has almost little tactical advantages (it's main defenses where the runestones and the massive gate of quel'talas both of wich were disabled by the scourge) but Orgrimmar is one hell of a reinforced city, both orgrimmar and thunderbluff are the most ressilient horde capitals in the game.
Post by
306612
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Post by
306612
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Post by
Skreeran
You know, the more I think about it, the more Shamans would be entirely useless in wartime. They have to ask the elements for their power in order to create their great feats (they'd still be good enough individually but saying all the Shamans of Org can band together and protect the city by collapsing stone on the top is a little too much), and I doubt the elements would listen to such a selfish plea, on both sides of the fence.See: Shaman during the Rise of the Horde.
Of course, during justified conflicts, like the Third War and Northrend, the Elements see happy to help the Shaman. The Cataclysm War, not so much I think. Too unnecessary and pointless.
Post by
Monday
A: the shaman of the alliance wound't be able to move the boulders, if the earth spirit moves the rocks at the request of a horde shaman, if the only result of moving said boulders is the death of non-combatants the rock will not yield, to put it on more practical terms, if I'm a shaman, and I say to this rock, "hey, move over here, I got civilians that need protection, guard us from our enemy", and another shaman tries to say to the same rock "hey my enemy is behind you, move", who do you think the rock is gonna listen to?
Depends. This is after Cataclysm, when there isn't no right or wrong side. Not to mention, why would the Elements listen to one person over the other? The Horde could say "These people are sieging our city and will destroy us, will you help us defend?" Where the Alliance could say "We pursue these foes in vengeance of our fallen comrades. You protect our grievous enemy who has killed many of us. Will you move?:
Post by
Adamsm
If it's pure war, and neither side is in the Right... I can't see the Elements assisting in actual assaults; they might help with defense but that's about it. Now, if it's war against a third party; aka Black Flight, Twilight Cultist, the Legion, they'll help with whatever. Rank mentioned Rise of the Horde... where the idea of a War against the Draenei caused the Elements to withdraw their assistance as they didn't want to be part of the Genocide.
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229054
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649369
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355559
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Post by
306612
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