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End of Expansion
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Post by
304214
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Post by
xaratherus
Wintergrasp was a fantastic idea
ha........
not really,it would of been ALOT better with
a balancing mechanism that worked
.
Fixed that, heh.
Post by
93865
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Post by
335609
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Post by
Magician22773
Just my rambling observations and opinions:
1. Wrath completely destroyed parts of the game. Most dramatically, loot. Epic's are anything but...Epic. They are common. In fact, what’s more uncommon, someone in full BiS, or someone with a single piece of green gear?
2. Something happened to Blizzard. I don't know if they got lazy, busy, uninspired, or power-mad, but something happened. They regurgitated (sic) a previous raid to start. Ulduar was OK, but seemed to lack something, continuity maybe. To me, it just seemed somewhat cobbled together. ToC, all I can say is Really? They used 1 room for all but the last boss, and that room, was also used for a 5 man. Then ICC comes, and we get it in chunks. Then we get 4 different versions, but of the same raid. Even the gear is the same, just with progressing stats.
3. Tradeskills became watered down at best, and nearly useless for some. You basically leveled them for a buff, and the buffs were all equal. Economies’ were manipulated by Blizz in many cases, and gold became as common as gear did.
Honestly, I don't want to rant. I dearly WANT to say Wrath was great, but it wasn't. The only "good" I can think of, is that it did open the content to everyone. But at what cost? Wrath pretty much was like playing a game with cheat codes. Yeah, ya beat the game, but you really didn't deserve it.
I really hope Cata is able to reverse the damage that was done, but WoW is like a giant pendulum, that once you get it swinging in one direction, is going to be extremely hard to turn it around.
Post by
lonewarrior
The whole shebang went sour the day they introduced Deathknights.
The LFD was a good idea employed badly because it went cross server and deteriorated same server socialization.
Charging 5000gold for a major component of the game(fast flying mount)+1000 more for cold weather and not making it account binding.
Allowing people to acquire gear equal to the highest non heroic contents without ever raiding.
Killing progression. When the expansion first came out..it followed in the steps of BC/vanilla,
There was a variety of raids and heroic dungeons. There was Naxx, EoE, OS and VOA.
On top of that you had the heroic 5man. I remember constantly running UP hoping for the Red sword of Courage to drop. This provided an active game life. Ulduar was the next logical step up..but after that something went awry. With the introduction of 5man ToC and the new emblem series..everything became cheapened. All the lower raids became nullified. This continue through ICC and it got to the point that after doing ICC there was nothing really else to do.
Things that went well...
I did like the leveling dungeons. I thought they were all pretty well designed with a fair degree of difficulty.
I think the quest were pretty good for the most part.
Heirlooms were a good reward for players who level up a toon and a much better idea then introducing level 55 deathknights for lazy players.
Dalaran was nicely designed. It just should have been larger..at least the size of Stormwind/Orgrimmar. I also wish it had been solely an 80's city with its own auction house to give it an aura of grandeur and status.
I don't think it was a total wash...every expansion has its good and bad.
Trying to maintain originality becomes more difficult with every passing expansion.
But they need to bring back true progression. There are some tweeks I've posted on other threads that I think would be an improvement to raiding without diluting progression or contents.
Hopefully Cata brings back the old feeling Vanilla once gave.
Post by
Adamsm
Charging 5000gold for a major component of the game(fast flying mount)+1000 more for cold weather and not making it account binding.Um... what? The 5k gold was BC level, not Wrath....and it's not a major component; you don't
need
epic flying, you wanted it, so you saved up the gold and bought it. I agree on CWF though, and it should have had a discount added to it, especially for the BoA book.
Post by
Thror
Duh, whatever. Wanted to write up my opinion about WotLK, but it would break the general negative atmosphere in this thread.
Duh, whatever. Wanted to write up something about WoW in general, but you guys seem to be glad to be the way you are.
(ive deleted about 7 paragraphs of text in this post)
Speaking as "the raid guy" I suppose I'm obligated to offer my opinion about the expansion raid difficulty change, which will raise back the bar for Cataclysm.
I welcome the change.
Made me lol. Wowhead memes <3
Post by
Liquoid
Just as much of MMO-Champion meme, to be honest.
Post by
298255
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Post by
567203
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Post by
632573
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Post by
2259
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Post by
Zorrah
I can't wait to see the crybabies who won't be able to get through heroics in 10 minutes by chain pulling and AOE'ing everything down.
Its going to be interesting to see this from rogues, mages and the like... "Whats CC?"
Post by
2259
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Post by
Tya1
Yesterday I read
*this*
entry on a blog. It's pretty much what most people are writing here, just with a little bit more eleboration.
Then, the last reply on this post made me think....I'll quote his first bit.
I think there are several things to note when players start harkening back to the “good ‘ole days” and more especially when the sentiment comes from a former top-end raider:
1. The “community” that a top-end vanilla raider experienced is definitely not the “community” of today. Server populations were smaller and guilds more stratified, so if you were in a top guild, in the US or simply on your server, you were known because there were less people at your level. Less guilds running end-game content equated to greater exposure of those who did. Ergo, more feel of “community” for those smaller social circles. So any time I hear a former top end raider talking about “lack of community” or “no one knows anyone” or “gear is so easy these days”, what I hear is “I am no longer a shining beacon of awesomeness who is easily distinguishable from the rabble and who everyone knows about”, because for sled dog in the back, the guy who wasn’t an overachiever in Vanilla and still isn’t today, the view hasn’t changed for the worse.
And you know what...he's right. I didn't raid in vanilla wow, was slightly somebody in TBC, and peanuts in WotLK, and tbh...nothing DID change. I'm still cruising the game on my own, like I did before. Sharing a house with me, is somebody though who is top end raider since vanilla wow. And he once said, totally honest: vanilla wow was more fun because I was somebody. I had epics, people congratulated me when my guild accomplished something. I got checked out when I hung around in IF. Now I'm still in one of the better guilds of the server, but I'm nobody special anymore. Everybody has epics, the same as me, just a little later and what I did, they expect to do aswell.
Now, I don't know who is replying here, or what they accomplished during their wow career. But I think a lot of people are just talking along, not really thinking if what is said is impacting them so much.
Yes...wrath had made a lot of things easier. Now...let me see. In Vanilla wow I played a mage. I think during all the time I played the amount of dungeons I did was shockingly low. Before you finally managed to get a group...got in the instance and finished it, you where sometimes 3 to 5 hours further. If I at all got a group....and think back at it...was there really so much..talking?
I remember a SM run, and the reason I remembered it was because I came across of one of the more colorful members of our server. He talked. I talked. Nobody else in the group talked...
Now I just pop on the LFD finder, get in a group, surf through an instance and get badges to improve my gear. Is it fun on the long run...perhaps not. But anything that is a grind takes away the fun in the end. Was Molten Core in the end fun?
People still don't talk, but at least it's easier for average joe to do something for the money he spends on the game.
I'm not saying that WotLK didn't has flaws. There are plenty. Just like vanilla had flaws, TBC had them, and Cata will have them as well. But complaining that it's too easy, community feeling is gone, no more social interaction, is a sort of wishful thinking about a time that only few actually had.
Anybody can join a pug now, raiding an raid instance that in Vanilla would have been unreachable. Hell...even Ulduar would have been impossible to do, if it was still vanilla setup. For a very large % of the people paying and playing this game, endgame would have been reached spring 2009.
I cannot fanthom what is now in essence so bad about the game being...accesable? In the end, most of the complaints I hear boil down to what I quoted: I am not special anymore. I cannot crawl out of the masses far enough to shine.
You know what...I don't think a lot of people play this game to spill praise over somebody else. I play it to have fun. And the part time job wow was in Vanilla was not what I considered fun. ^^ I'll take wrath over vanilla every day.
Post by
Porcell
to those that said that the expansion was too easy --show me you heroic LK kill
99% of the whinging is because they cant parade around Dal looking leet in gear that nobody else could get --big deal
WoW has many, many different strands. High-end raiding is only one of them. So to generalise that everybody is moaning about raiding being too easy is ridiculously short-sighted at best.
Example - my ambitions are not high-end raiding or progression raiding. I'm not wanting to be on the cusp of the game, battling for world firsts or even realm firsts.
I want to play this game as an adventure and immerse myself. I want to do quests and be genuinely satisfied when I complete them, I want to get a reward from a quest and think - jeez - that's awesome, might keep hold of this for a while!
If you feel getting 'Kingslayer' title validates your existence - awesome. You've complete yourself, now you can go live out the rest of your days on some beach elsewhere and not bother us again. What it certainly doesn't validate, is you generalising that everyone wants as big an e-peen as your obviously fine self.
I think that is exactly his point. All of the people ^&*!@ing about Too Easy and Too Casual are probably the same ones who run a 8/12 ICC 25 Normal with 30% buff, and are mad that so many people have the same 264 gear and heroic Lootship items that they do.
I did my ICC progression, I did Heroic progression. Raiding has fallen off recently, but we've been a 11/12 hardmode guild for months now. I don't know if my fellow guild members agree, but I like the difficulty of ICC. I liked the difficulty of Ulduar hardmodes.
Maybe top of the top guilds might think the hardmode content is too easy. Then there's another batch of people (the group I'm in) who worked progression, liked the difficulty, and enjoyed WotLK. Then there's the final casual group who will guild run or pug half the bosses of ICC, and then complain that they aren't beautiful and unique snowflakes because all of the other casuals have the same gear as them.
I liked the change to Normal and Heroic versions of raids. I don't know why people think Raiding (in general) should be some sort of exclusive club. For those people who don't have the time or the skill to do the very best, do you expect them to enjoy the game by just running normal instances all the time? Let them have their raids. Let them get decked in six bosses worth of 264 gear. Good for them, hope they are having fun. But they better not dare say that it's too easy.
Post by
Liquoid
to those that said that the expansion was too easy --show me you heroic LK kill
99% of the whinging is because they cant parade around Dal looking leet in gear that nobody else could get --big deal
WoW has many, many different strands. High-end raiding is only one of them. So to generalise that everybody is moaning about raiding being too easy is ridiculously short-sighted at best.
Example - my ambitions are not high-end raiding or progression raiding. I'm not wanting to be on the cusp of the game, battling for world firsts or even realm firsts.
I want to play this game as an adventure and immerse myself. I want to do quests and be genuinely satisfied when I complete them, I want to get a reward from a quest and think - jeez - that's awesome, might keep hold of this for a while!
If you feel getting 'Kingslayer' title validates your existence - awesome. You've complete yourself, now you can go live out the rest of your days on some beach elsewhere and not bother us again. What it certainly doesn't validate, is you generalising that everyone wants as big an e-peen as your obviously fine self.
I think that is exactly his point. All of the people ^&*!@ing about Too Easy and Too Casual are probably the same ones who run a 11/12 ICC 25 hc with 30% buff, and are mad that so many people have the same 277 gear that they do.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tya1
Sigh Aestu, find another rhyme then: as soon as somebody has an opinion about wow, he takes it to serious.
How he plays the game has nothing to do with how he sees the: wow is not social enough anymore complaint. He apperently likes to raid hardcore, deal with the things that come in the game as soon as you start that raid. How that affects his opinion about the social subject is irrelevant. He has never said he considered himself the 'sledge-dog'. He's reverring to the majority of people who didn't raid in vanilla, and who isn't doing serious raiding now. HAS FOR THEM CHANGED ANYTHING?
No. They are still alone in a MMO, being looked down upon by the 'serious raiders' if you call them. But now they can flip them the finger and say: you know what, I pay the same money and I can see the same stuff, AND I have epics. Just like you. Perhaps not as good as you, but you know what? Huddle together in your nice elite, high end guild, looking down at us rabble that wasn't quick enough, didn't know the right people or just wants an easy experience because we think we have better things to do, we don't care anymore.
I don't know where you get the idea from that there were more guilds in vanilla wow doing more different things, but I guess that wasn't happening on my server. Granted, I had to leave the game when raiding started to become really interesting, but on my server you had more or less the choice from about 4 guilds doing the raid stuff. If you were NOT quick enough to be in a guild that organized raids from the start, you were left with running MC over and over as those 4 guilds very carefully picked the best players, putting the rest back to square one. Hell, when Naxx came out a couple of very clever guys formed an elite guild with the elitists players from the rest of the raiding guilds leaving the rest behind. Only 1 (that is ONE) guild cleared Naxx on my server before TBC. That hardly makes the statement: more raiding type of guilds believable. And anyway, how many guilds where there actually running Kara/ZA (not for the mount)/SSC/TK by the end of TBC? I can't remember any on my server.
And you know: some people play the game for both the social aspect and raiding. I know that will sound strange in the ears of a guy who left his guild because another guild dangled the LK mount in front of his eyes, which he greedily pursued, and then cried foul because he didn't get it.
So this statement from you is a bit rich.
Furthermore - this is an MMO. Why play an MMO if one's desire is to play only with oneself? Since this same person expresses a desire to play by himself AND get gear - for what purpose, since he's not doing progression - I can only conclude he's an antisocial individual who wants status in a game.
Your own behavior there already showed the essence of people: they use others to get what they want. If there would be guilds still going Naxx/Ulduar/ToC, I know exactly how those would look like: a couple of tired officers, 5 or so raiders that are still there because they are loyal to the guild and a flux of fresh players, who on the moment they got the minimum of gear to go the next tier will do so. You are sort of suggesting that guilds will move in a fluid movement, together, from tier to tier, but that is a nice dream. Anybody who has ever been in a Karazhan guild halfway TBC, can confirm that.
But not everybody feels comfortable to use other people to get further. And there is where the current design is useful for. It does mean that somebody like to join an ICC run, knowing that if they kill 6 bosses tonight they have a good night. Running heroics like crazy for a few days is not the reward, its a tool.
Or you follow your advice which you've given in several other cases: join a high level raiding guild and join the alt runs or something. THAT is what I consider leeching on others. They do the work, you can benefit from it without having to do anything then just logging on on the right moment. If that for you the definition is of a MMO, then yeah, it's no suprise the social cohesion is totally gone. Use, abuse and throw on the side.
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