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Obama gun ban
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Post by
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
120504
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Haxzor
Asylu, again what are your beliefs on the chances of a "well informed and armed populous" being more than a minor distraction either for an invading army or a tyrannical government? Even assuming they didn't use biological, chemical, or even nuclear weapons and relied instead on more traditional means like helicopters, tanks, bombers, and the like. You'd be better off taking "a knife to a gun fight" than taking your assault rifle up against a tank or a predator drone. There is zero chance. The best a gun could do you in that case is give you a quicker out than a bottle of pills or jumping off a bridge.
You're greatly underestimating guerrilla style, asymmetrical warfare. Look at the Iraq War, Afghanistan, or even the FARC in Columbia. I'm just playing devil's advocate here >.^
Because the taliban are ordinary citizens...
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, America was founded on Guerrilla principles...and getting help from other countries.
Alright, sarcastic remark done: On topic: Against an actual soldier, your average Joe Blow will die, that is one of the main facts. People think it's 'easy' to shoot someone... it's not; take an empty gun, aim it at someone, and ten bucks your hand will start shaking, and that's with no ammo.
If an actual invading force attacked, whether it's Third World Savages, terrorists, or zombie hordes, your average hunter type would probably die... more then likely to friendly fire. Beyond that, it's fine to
Bear Arms
(god can't believe I just linked something from Family Guy), but saying your doing it in the event that them savages are coming to get you.. yeah.....
Post by
MyTie
Guns are illegal in Australia (need a license to own/use them for hunting/sport) and everything works fine. No-body fears driveby shootings or anything of the matter.
I'm not sure why America clings to its outdated constitutional 'rights'
"ZOMG BUT I NEED A GUN TO PROTECT ME FROM THAT GUY WHO HAS A GUN" If guns were illegal in the first place the dangerous person with a gun wouldnt have a gun. Your laws are digging you a big hole you wont be able to get out of without a large deal of hassle.
Indeed.
I'll just leave this here.
And a nice quote from it: In 2005 the head of the New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, noted that the level of legal gun ownership in New South Wales increased in recent years, and that the 1996 legislation had had little effect on violence. Professor Simon Chapman, former convenor of the Coalition for Gun Control, complained that his words "will henceforth be cited by every gun-lusting lobby group throughout the world in their perverse efforts to stall reforms that could save thousands of lives". Weatherburn responded "The fact is that the introduction of those laws did not result in any acceleration of the downward trend in gun homicide. They may have reduced the risk of mass shootings but we cannot be sure because no one has done the rigorous statistical work required to verify this possibility. It is always unpleasant to acknowledge facts that are inconsistent with your own point of view. But I thought that was what distinguished science from popular prejudice.ZOMG! Like, my opinions are better than facts. ZOMG GUNS ARE BAD!
Post by
Haxzor
And a nice quote from it: "will henceforth be cited by every gun-lusting lobby group throughout the world in their perverse efforts to stall reforms that could save thousands of lives"
I'm not sure how any of what you linked helps prove anything
Post by
120504
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Haxzor
I'm saying, most guerrilla situations are made by organised military style outfits
Post by
MyTie
And a nice quote from it: "will henceforth be cited by every gun-lusting lobby group throughout the world in their perverse efforts to stall reforms that could save thousands of lives"
I'm not sure how any of what you linked helps prove anything
Thanks for pointing this out Haxzor! This exerpt from my quote shows two things:
1) The guy who reported the findings believed that more gun control could save lives.
2) He realized the evidence pointed to the contrary.
The best concession I can make for you is that gun control could save lives. The reality is that statistics have shown otherwise, and not just for Austrailia, but for other countries as well, including the US. Washington DC was a perfect example of it.
Anyway, I'm glad you caught that in the middle of it. The entire quote read, in laymen's terms: I know that gun lobbists are going to use this information against what my personal beliefs are, but all the statistics point out that Austrailia's gun control hasn't had an impact on violent crime.
Listen, I don't have a bet on the fight. I don't care either way. All I know is what the studies show. They say your position, while noble, is wrong. Sorry ol chap.
Post by
Haxzor
Violent crimes =/= Shootings.
Violent crimes could be pretty much any crime where the Criminal comes into contact with the Victim
Post by
MyTie
Violent crimes =/= Shootings.
Violent crimes could be pretty much any crime where the Criminal comes into contact with the Victim
"The fact is that the introduction of those laws did not result in any acceleration of the downward trend in gun homicide.Isn't it pretty clear when it says "gun homicide". I was using violent crime in general, but the specifics are still there if you want to speak about those. I consider myself to be pretty neutral in this. I'm just pointing to statistics. While some people do try to take those statistics out of context for a radical pro-gun stance, when taken in context, they still protray a pretty convincing pro-gun stance. Trying to twist them around into an anti-gun stance will be difficult. Good luck with that.
Post by
Haxzor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Homicides_by_country
Stats!
Post by
MyTie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Homicides_by_country
Stats!
Caution is advised in reading the table. The statistics cannot take into account the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in various countries, of the different methods of tallying, etc. In particular, to use the figures as a basis for comparison between different countries is highly problematic as is comparing data from different years among different countries.
Post by
Haxzor
playing the source game are we?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-fall-short-in-war-on-crime/2005/10/28/1130400366681.html
there's your source. The SMH, missing out on bits of quotes and everything!
p.s.
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html
Post by
MyTie
playing the source game are we?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-fall-short-in-war-on-crime/2005/10/28/1130400366681.html
there's your source. The SMH, missing out on bits of quotes and everything!
p.s.
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html
I don't get it... a link that is pro-gun, and one that points out how the CDC doesn't disclose data used in anti-gun research? How do those help your platform? By the way, I already read those.
Post by
Haxzor
I'm saying the Herald isnt the most unbiased newspaper and the second one shows clearly that the crime rate is higher in the US than it is in the UK/Australia
Post by
MyTie
I'm saying the Herald isnt the most unbiased newspaper and the second one shows clearly that the crime rate is higher in the US than it is in the UK/Australia
Well suit yourself. I don't care enough about this arguement to continue my part in the debate. It doesn't seem like you are going to be easily swayed, and I'm not willing to work this hard at it.
Post by
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Laihendi
I'm pretty much sure that if Obama just even vaguely hinted to limit firearms, the public uproar could be heard from Pluto...
Why would there be a public uproar in Pluto? And how could we hear it here? I was under the impression that sound didn't travel through space.
I knew this was going to be a bad thread.
I saw that you had posted and knew it was going to be interesting...Sorry to disappoint.
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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