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4.0.6 Patches Notes - UPDATED 15/01/11
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Post by
Xiamaru
I'm a little confused about this:
Pets now have 70% of the master's armor, rather than a different value based on which type of pet they are.
This seems to be a big nerf to my pet-tanking... as I was using a tenacity for leveling an it had a amazing amount of armor... much more than I have...
Which is probably against the intended design.
Why? My turtle, with that big shell, can't have more armor than my little mail rings?
Nop, apparently not. But then again, those "little mail rings" we wear, makes us: Better at hitting, more agile, allow us to sustain far more damage than what should be mortally possible, and
faster
, along with the armor. Needless to say, I think it's safe to assume our "little mail rings" may be able to block damage a *tad* bit better than a turtle shell. Think of it like this: Our "little mail rings" are magically enhanced, and created from materials far stronger than the silly metals humans in the past have used (Iron, Steel, Bronze, ect.), and thus are capable of mitigating far more than those. Therefore, regardless of how thick or big the shell is, our magically enhanced, hardened elementium mail rings, will be vastly stronger than that silly shell.
The greatest flaw in your argument, however, is attempting to tie logic to WoW. In order to fully appreciate WoW, you need to understand and use "suspension of disbelief", otherwise everything rapidly falls apart. How can you use fire in water? How can you use electricity below water, without toasting everything nearby, yourself included? The list goes on. Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 80 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
Also for Multishot, I agree that it
does
need to be changed a bit. Our agility nerf was well deserved as well. I picked up hunters after having tried several other classes post-patch 4.0, and was like
WOW
+15%
agility?
that's far more than what most other classes can boast, all taken into account with a single exception. Unholy Might from DK's only grant 10 % strength, and that is the best scaling buff of all the 3 DK's in terms of damage. The only exception to us, is Subtelty Rogues, who, if I'm not completely wrong (that means, unless it have been changed recently), get +25% agility. They need the buff to be able to dish out respectable damage, which is why the buff is fine as it is. The only issue, is that, when looking at MM and BM, it would seem that they too need a buff like that.
MM and BM doesn't suffer from bad AoE only - Their single target dps is the worst as well. Someone posted a spreadsheet from the different Cataclysm raid bosses, and how much each class is able to dish out, and Hunter Marksman and Hunter Beastmastery, were the 2 lowest on the charts, with Survival being at the 2. 3. or 4. place (can't remember right now sadly, and can't find the link to said chart). So Blizzard are in for some !@#$. They need to somehow balance out Survival so it doesn't out-dps everyone, but still need to buff BM and MM so they can be viable for dps in raids. Good luck with that..
Post by
637828
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
havtor
Blizz now is trying to balance all the 3 specs by nerfing SV which is by far the best. But why? On WotLK MM was simply the ONLY spec you could use on PvE to do decent DPS, while SV and BM were really bad.
Now, when SV finally is having a good DPS Blizz nerfs our 15% agi bonus to 10%, because our AoE damage is too high. Maybe removing SS spread would be much better than reducing 5% agi, which affects ALL our shots.
Besides, if a spec is better than the others, you don't need to use another and stay complaining that it's much better than yours and saying it should be more nerfed, you can simply respec to that spec and do the awesome DPS that spec is doing.
cos they want people to play MM and BM to right now in raids its not anypoint
in heroics i dont see why you can not go Mm though as personaly i am only about 1k dmg under with MM over surv but in raids its mutch bigger diferance.
Can not speak for BM as i dont play it but if MM was only 1-2k damage under surv i would play MM anyday i find surv to be to boring and i miss silancing shot.
Post by
matheus314
Nop, apparently not. But then again, those "little mail rings" we wear, makes us: Better at hitting, more agile, allow us to sustain far more damage than what should be mortally possible, and
faster
, along with the armor. Needless to say, I think it's safe to assume our "little mail rings" may be able to block damage a *tad* bit better than a turtle shell. Think of it like this: Our "little mail rings" are magically enhanced, and created from materials far stronger than the silly metals humans in the past have used (Iron, Steel, Bronze, ect.), and thus are capable of mitigating far more than those. Therefore, regardless of how thick or big the shell is, our magically enhanced, hardened elementium mail rings, will be vastly stronger than that silly shell.
The greatest flaw in your argument, however, is attempting to tie logic to WoW. In order to fully appreciate WoW, you need to understand and use "suspension of disbelief", otherwise everything rapidly falls apart. How can you use fire in water? How can you use electricity below water, without toasting everything nearby, yourself included? The list goes on. Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 80 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
Hey, sorry for make you write that much just because of my "childish" writing. I'm aware of the fantasy style of the game, but thanks anyway.
The only thing I'd want to mention to your theory is that you didn't take in account the fact that our pets (and their feats and abilities) are also leveling and you can imagine that as my turtle gets stronger, his shell could get thicker and even get tougher to crack, giving it more armor rating. (As easy to think that more hit rating gives you a bigger chance to hit, not the opposite.)
WoW isn't supposed to make any sense? I wonder what the creators would think about that sentence of yours... if it's senseless, then we could see an increase in armor gives you an increase in damage taken, and I can bet that isn't even near of what the creators of the game want you to think about it.
Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 80 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
I think you may have made a mistake with the numbers in this sentence, because I can't even start to wonder where you wanted to get with it.
Post by
512617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xiamaru
Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 80 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
I think you may have made a mistake with the numbers in this sentence, because I can't even start to wonder where you wanted to get with it.
If you interpret it as I did, it's referring to the percentage of mitigation. Level 20 armor
at level 20
will provide a greater percentage of mitigation than would level 80 armor at level 85.
As for suspension of disbelief, it's practically part of the EULA. In reality, people don't get to run back to their corpses when they die, and running up to a wild tiger and demanding that it love you and serve you forever and ever will get you mauled. Then again, these are the same people that said we had to have focus because "mana makes no sense for hunters."
I believe a better philosophy is that WoW is only meant to make as much sense as the developers wish it to make at any given point in time.
The thing about mitigation is correctly intepreted. It hardly makes sense, but we accept it - otherwise, we would have crap mitigation at low level, and insane mitigation at high level. It would be game-breaking in so many ways.
About the suspension of disbelief - true, Blizzard do make some odd moves, and it most likely comes down to the part I bolded in the end. I was probably a bit too forceful about the whole thing, because obviously SOME things do make sense. Stay below water for any extended amount of time, and you drown. Fall from somewhere high, and you die. This makes sense, which is obviously against the quite forced statement I made earlier. Was just trying to make it obvious that quite a few mechanics in the game doesn't translate to any form of common sense as we know it.
As for the armor of our pets - I can see the logic behind that reasoning. As they grow in power, and unlock latent abilities through their talent trees, they
should
possess the power to surpass us, in terms of armor at least. However, you still have to remember that our armor, however silly it may seem, possess some quite awesome attributes, and are made from far stronger materials than we have access to in the real world - so in the end, I guess it could go either way. That's up for Blizzard to decide, whether or not these materials are capable of making our mail armors stronger, and more durable, than that of an evolved, massive turtle shell.
Oh, and about the size of my posts - that's a bad habit of mine. I suck at limiting my posts. If I feel the possibility of misunderstanding the post is there, I try to fill the hole. It quickly gets a bit out of hand, and ends up creating new holes at the same time. I just prefer to make long, describing posts, rather than the simple, !@#got-reply some of the "proz" here give, concerning things they apparently know everything about, but we no nothing of:
No.
Post by
Interest
I'm a little confused about this:
Pets now have 70% of the master's armor, rather than a different value based on which type of pet they are.
This seems to be a big nerf to my pet-tanking... as I was using a tenacity for leveling an it had a amazing amount of armor... much more than I have...
Which is probably against the intended design.
One issue with that theory. Why did they buff Grace of the Mantis to grant Cunning and Tenacity pets crit immunity?
Edit: They could've gone with any figures besides 3/6%, but that's what they did, to clarify.
Re: Pet armor. I'm just curious as of how much armor the pets will end up with. Looking at two of my pets, one got 20k armor, other got 18k armor. I got 14k armor. Does this mean that these pets will end up with 9.8k armor, actually reduced by 50%? I assume that's not the case, such a nerf would be way too much.
More detailed info about pets says 11k armor (in white) + 9k (in green), not entirely sure what that means (I don't have any talents that increase the pet's armor). Perhaps it's only the armor in white that's affected? And anyone know what the armor in green is?
The formula will be pet armor + 70% your armor + talent bonuses. I think. Pet tanking will still be possible, though, thanks to scaling Mend Pet of doom.
Btw, the scaling seems to be roughly 40%, as shown on the tooltip. It's probably not accurate though. Nope. this is definitely not a nerf. This is a buff to Ferocity and Cunning, and no change to Tenacity.
Post by
matheus314
About the suspension of disbelief - true, Blizzard do make some odd moves, and it most likely comes down to the part I bolded in the end. I was probably a bit too forceful about the whole thing, because obviously SOME things do make sense. Stay below water for any extended amount of time, and you drown. Fall from somewhere high, and you die. This makes sense, which is obviously against the quite forced statement I made earlier. Was just trying to make it obvious that quite a few mechanics in the game doesn't translate to any form of common sense as we know it.
As for the armor of our pets - I can see the logic behind that reasoning. As they grow in power, and unlock latent abilities through their talent trees, they
should
possess the power to surpass us, in terms of armor at least. However, you still have to remember that our armor, however silly it may seem, possess some quite awesome attributes, and are made from far stronger materials than we have access to in the real world - so in the end, I guess it could go either way. That's up for Blizzard to decide, whether or not these materials are capable of making our mail armors stronger, and more durable, than that of an evolved, massive turtle shell.
OK. I get that, and now we agree by agreeing with each other. lol
Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 80 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
I still don't get it.
OK, of course level 20 gear will mitigate more damage at level 20 than level 80 gear at level 85.
The comparision should have been with level 20 gear at level 25 with level 80 gear at level 85. This also return the same results qualitatively, but now with valid comparations (5 levels gap in each side).
Was something like that you had in mind?
Post by
Xiamaru
Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 80 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
I still don't get it.
OK, of course level 20 gear will mitigate more damage at level 20 than level 80 gear at level 85.
The comparision should have been with level 20 gear at level 25 with level 80 gear at level 85. This also return the same results qualitatively, but now with valid comparations (5 levels gap in each side).
Was something like that you had in mind?
Nop, what I said was right on. I was refering to the meaning of "common sense" in World of Warcraft. But perhaps, I should have wrote it like this instead then:
Otherwise, explain why a level 20 set can give more mitigation at 20, than a level 20 set does at level 85. You can't, because it doesn't make any sense. Wow isn't supposed to make sense.
The point is, an armor, if using common sense, should protect you equally well, regardless of how strong you are. It doesn't make any difference if your muscle mass is 10 or 30 % of your body, or however those numbers would look in real life. But in WoW, any piece of armor is rapidly getting diminished. In the end, that armor that protected you amazingly well at level 20, does nothing at all for you at level 85.
You say "of course level 20 gear will mitigate more damage at level 20, than level 80 gear at level 85", but then I'll ask the obvious question: Why? Why does it make sense? Regardless of how I twist or turn the numbers, I can't make them make sense. Please clarify.
Post by
matheus314
You say "of course level 20 gear will mitigate more damage at level 20, than level 80 gear at level 85", but then I'll ask the obvious question: Why? Why does it make sense? Regardless of how I twist or turn the numbers, I can't make them make sense. Please clarify.
That's beacuse of the level of the encounters you are facing at those levels. And the exponential growth of the stats.
Post by
Interest
Just to clarify how armor works. The Physical damage reduction will work against incoming Physical damage whether it comes from a level 20 or 85.
So if you're level 5 and have 75% Physical damage reduction, you're still going to take 25k damage out of a 100k hit if it's a level 20 or level 85 opponent. This is why Blizzard also developed something called "crushing blow" to ensure you can't cheese fights by abusing how their Physical damage reduction system works.
Post by
matheus314
Just to clarify how armor works. The Physical damage reduction will work against incoming Physical damage whether it comes from a level 20 or 85.
So if you're level 5 and have 75% Physical damage reduction, you're still going to take 25k damage out of a 100k hit if it's a level 20 or level 85 opponent. This is why Blizzard also developed something called "crushing blow" to ensure you can't cheese fights by abusing how their Physical damage reduction system works.
Enlight me a little more, please. If a level 20 has, lets say, 1000 armor, and with that, 50% physical damage reduction (all hypotetical) that means that the amount of physical damage reduction is a rate of how much armor he has for his level? Not regarding the opponent (besides the crushing blow, of course)?
Post by
683852
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Just to clarify how armor works. The Physical damage reduction will work against incoming Physical damage whether it comes from a level 20 or 85.
So if you're level 5 and have 75% Physical damage reduction, you're still going to take 25k damage out of a 100k hit if it's a level 20 or level 85 opponent. This is why Blizzard also developed something called "crushing blow" to ensure you can't cheese fights by abusing how their Physical damage reduction system works.
Enlight me a little more, please. If a level 20 has, lets say, 1000 armor, and with that, 50% physical damage reduction (all hypotetical) that means that the amount of physical damage reduction is a rate of how much armor he has for his level? Not regarding the opponent (besides the crushing blow, of course)?
That is correct. It is a calculation of your armor and your level taken into account. 1000 armor will benefit a level 20 more than a level 85.The formula will be pet armor + 70% your armor + talent bonuses. I think. Pet tanking will still be possible, though, thanks to scaling Mend Pet of doom.
Btw, the scaling seems to be roughly 40%, as shown on the tooltip. It's probably not accurate though. Nope. this is definitely not a nerf. This is a buff to Ferocity and Cunning, and no change to Tenacity.
Cheers for the clarification, was a bit worried we were heading back to pets dying when a priest stabs it with a dagger.
Well, I clarified it a bit incorrectly. Tenacity is actually about 70% ATM. The reason it seems higher is due to the fact there's multiple armor increasing talents that have high percentages attached to them. This change is actually to prevent pets from dying in PvP even more and so on =D.
Post by
karlusdavius
Updated
Cobra shot cast time is now affected by haste.
Concussive Shot duration has been increased to 6 seconds, up from 4.
Freezing Trap now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
Master's Call now has a 35-second cooldown, down from 1 minute, and its range has been increased to 40 yards, up from 25. In addition, the visual effect is more obvious.
Steady Shot cast time is now affected by haste.
Wing Clip now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
Beast Mastery
Master's Call now has a 40 yards range, up from 25 yards. Cooldown reduced to 35 sec, down from 1 min.
Marksmanship
Concussive Shot now dazes the target for 6 sec, up from 4 sec.
Wild Quiver (Mastery): Chance for this to trigger per mastery has been increased by approximately 17%.
Survival
Black Arrow damage has been reduced by 25%.
Explosive Shot damage has been reduced by 25%.
Hunter vs. Wild has been increased to 5/10/15% Stamina, up from 4/8/12%.
Serpent Spread can now only affect up to 4 targets per Multi-Shot, down from unlimited.
Post by
HoleofArt
Black Arrow nerf is stupid and unnecessary. Way to make our 31 talent point even worse.
Post by
karlusdavius
I think they are hitting mostly everything, the wil probably buff it back up again. I doubt ES will be rebuffed. I think the SS+MS change is just horrific. Granted, it was OP but why can't they just do it like AoE and reduce it after 10?
Post by
Interest
Karlus, they added some extra stuff if you wanna check out the thread on General.
Here
.
Post by
karlusdavius
Updated with official notes. Changes are starting to look good!
It's a shame wowhead can't post up the notes themselves. would be far easier for them.
Post by
matheus314
Updated with official notes. Changes are starting to look good!
It's a shame wowhead can't post up the notes themselves. would be far easier for them.
true
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