This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
4.0.6 Patches Notes - UPDATED 15/01/11
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
izuul
There's some interesting stuff in the latest notes.
From an SV perspective, the 15% nerf to ExS coupled with the new 15% buff to ArS is obviously going to lead to a much smaller distinction b/t the two shots. I guess the ArS buff is spillover from the MM/BM buff, but it seems a bit of an odd touch. I suppose it also helps to put a stop to focus capping and ignoring ArS...
As for them reverting Serpent Spread back to it's original state, i guess they are just looking for a different way to nerf it now? That nerf was over the top, and hopefully they realized that, but i can't imagine SV's AOE is going to make it through 4.06 totally unscathed.
And the love just keeps coming for MM. The main thing holding MM back is going to be the (still) pathetic AOE damage. If they find a way to buff MM AOE it will surely be a competitive raid spec again with all of the other changes.
Post by
TehTerokkar
And the love just keeps coming for MM. The main thing holding MM back is going to be the (still) pathetic AOE damage. If they find a way to buff MM AOE it will surely be a competitive raid spec again with all of the other changes.
MM's AoE is stronger than BM's at least :D!
Post by
Interest
It's meant to give more focus with haste. Which would be good with rapid fire as Survival or just good in general! Seems odd that we hit the 7% odd haste cap easily this tier. Maybe it will be hard to get the cast time down?
Wouldn't that effectively equate to double scaling? I think the cast time reduction is enough no?
And the love just keeps coming for MM. The main thing holding MM back is going to be the (still) pathetic AOE damage. If they find a way to buff MM AOE it will surely be a competitive raid spec again with all of the other changes.
MM's AoE is stronger than BM's at least :D!
Try using a Worm maybe.
Post by
Interest
From an SV perspective, the 15% nerf to ExS coupled with the new 15% buff to ArS is obviously going to lead to a much smaller distinction b/t the two shots. I guess the ArS buff is spillover from the MM/BM buff, but it seems a bit of an odd touch. I suppose it also helps to put a stop to focus capping and ignoring ArS...
Huh? Once you're focus-capped, you get absolutely zero benefit from saving up focus any further - it's like trying to store water in an overflowing tub. Hence, using Arcane Shot to make use of the stored focus and thus allow for the incoming focus to be stored and later converted into an Explosive Shot or Black Arrow would be a good idea as long as the latter shots don't suffer a delay, no? Another way of putting it is that when you are focus-capped, you are no longer collecting focus that could be used to power more Arcane Shots and bolster your damage output. Oh, and by not using Arcane Shot, you might as well talent out of Thrill of the Hunt, as the focus refund is meaningless if you don't spend the refund.
I understand that you are most likely not promoting this, and I am in no way attacking you. I'm just pointing out that there really isn't any sound reasoning behind ignoring our only focus dump in any spec, pre-
or
post-4.0.6.
I think what he means is perhaps you can dump more Focus as opposed to pooling up Focus for Explosive Shot (which is generally what you do until you reach some amount of Focus) and to a lesser extent, Black Arrow. I barely use Arcane Shot as it is.
Just a thought.
Post by
izuul
Well #1 is the Careful Aim situation. If you have this talented, it's a DPS gain to use Cobra over Arcane at all times when the boss is over 80%, even when focus capped. No Arcanes during this period at all.
The second part is just something i picked up from reading. There is currently a line of thought that believes it's
often
better to stay focus capped and use Cobra Shot rather than dumping your focus on Arcane.
I'm not a big theorycrafter myself, but from what i gather, the rational behind it is twofold:
1) There is often little to no DPS difference b/t the two options. Cobra actually hits slightly harder than Arcane and costs no focus. The advantage to Arcane is that it only eats 1 second whereas Cobra is typically in the 1.60ish range (obviously varies with haste). However, this advantage is largely negated b/c you can typically still only fit in one Arcane and 2x Cobra b/t your ES without leaving ES on CD which would lose DPS. As long as you have your Cobra cast time at 1.66 sec or less you can always fit in 3x Cobra b/t ES without leaving ES on CD at all.
2) It's more valuable to have that focus available for fights with adds or target switching so that you can immediately multishot or get your Sting / BA up on the new target.
I cant find any of the actual posts about it right now, but i did find one on EJ eluding to it.
The end result is hopefully more focus and less cobra shot casts, but hasn't the math shown that more cobra shots are slightly better than focus dumping with AS, therefore focus capping isn't so bad if everything (i.e. ES and BA) is on cooldown?
Post by
Interest
Pooling focus for Explosive Shot and Black Arrow is good. However, this does not require you to be focus capping yourself. Even being able to fire ES & BA back-to-back doesn't require you to be focus-capped - I can still pull that off in my opening shot sequence after having just spent 25 Focus on Serpent Sting, and that takes more focus than Arcane Shot (assuming 3/3 Efficiency).
There's still a pretty large window of pooled Focus required. It can go up to 79 Focus needed at the maximum point. I never implied it does. It's just you really do need to generate a lot of Focus:
(44*4) + 35 = 211 Focus and 5 globals per 24 seconds.
Assuming base Focus regen of 4*(1.33)/s (5.32/s) (127.68 Focus per 30 seconds) <- Haste = 33% << Fixed
and Cobra Shot cast time at 1.5 (very generous. I don't think anyone aims for this) --> 12.666... Cobra Shots * 9 = 114 Focus
127.68 + 114 = 241.68 (round up to 242). Without talents like Thrill of the Hunt and Lock and Load, you can do about 1 Arcane Shot and then some for every 4 Explosive Shots and 1 Black Arrow
With talents, Lock and Load/TNT (assuming it always procs once every 24 seconds) combined with Thrill of the Hunt equates to 18 Focus generated from Explosive Shot, and a further 2.1 Focus from Black Arrow and 1.5 from Arcane Shot. So you get about enough for another Arcane Shot.
You now have two Arcane Shots to use (1.5 extra Focus due to Thrill of the Hunt). Obviously this is assuming ideal conditions where Focus will not overflow.
Edit: My math is probably wrong somewhere lol.
Edit 2: In conclusion, not doing this properly could be potentially punishing, but the Arcane Shot buff and Explosive Shot/Black Arrow nerfs have implications for how the Focus will be used, or how detrimental it is to your DPS not to use Explosive Shot/Black Arrow every cooldown.
Edit: Yep. Turns out my math was bad. Fixed it a bit.
Post by
izuul
I actually checked today and it requires 2260 haste rating to get your Cobra Shot to 1.5 cast with 3/3 Pathing and the Hunting Party buff. It only takes 810 haste to hit the 1.66 cast.
1.5 would be the point where you could theoretically get in 2x Cobra and 2x Arcane b/t Explosives to burn some focus without delaying Explosive.
Post by
Interest
I actually checked today and it requires 2260 haste rating to get your Cobra Shot to 1.5 cast with 3/3 Pathing and the Hunting Party buff. It only takes 810 haste to hit the 1.66 cast.
1.5 would be the point where you could theoretically get in 2x Cobra and 2x Arcane b/t Explosives to burn some focus without delaying Explosive.
I was being mathematically generous. I know you can't hit that really atm...maybe with extremely good gear.
I will say though. I greatly doubt you can do that. 5*6 + 18 = 48 generated (effectively 51)
Post by
izuul
I wasn't trying to correct you are anything. I had just looked it up earlier out of curiosity b/c it fit with what i was talking about.
Post by
Interest
I wasn't trying to correct you are anything. I had just looked it up earlier out of curiosity b/c it fit with what i was talking about.
Ah. Alright.
Post by
Interest
Well, dangit. I thought that shortening the time interval to 24 seconds (24 being the CD on Black Arrow) and lowering the starting focus level by assuming a Serpent Sting is uses before the first Explosive Trap would lead to more accurate results, and an even lower focus deficit. Instead, I wound up with a net 8 focus gain.
Please check over my work to try and see why our results don't agree; I sure couldn't!
Crap. I completely forgot about the Black Arrow cooldown.
I'll need to re-edit a good chunk of my post then. Thanks for noting that!
I also ^&*!ed up the haste thing too.
So, if these results are to be trusted, then the focus cap will be reached exactly 2 minutes (3 full cycles) after the first Explosive Shot is fired. Using an Arcane Shot immediately after the third Black Arrow to compensate will cause that increment to end with 43 focus; one focus shy of being ready for the next Explosive Shot >.<
That seems about right.
Post by
HoleofArt
The above shot sequence I used above assumes that neither Thrill of the Hunt nor Lock and Load procs throughout the course of the fight.
Thus, the shot sequence I used for the above exercise
should not be used as a rotation.
If you were to do so, you would be making no use of Thrill of the Hunt procs, and your pace would be completely thrown off by Lock and Load procs.
I assume it also excludes BL/RF?
Post by
karlusdavius
Updated
Casting Trap Launcher, Distracting Shot, and Scare Beast now cancel Auto Shot when cast. This is to make it easier to crowd control creatures with Auto Shot while moving enabled.
Post by
Dragonzero
Wyvern Sting is for CC saver, I alway watch between healer/tank and when the tank hold trash about lose 1 mob for aggro to the healer then I fired WS to that mob.
I use macros mouse over the target to make Wyvern Sting active then fired and it work.
Scatter shot is for your safety if the Fegin Death on CD, example if that mob went to healer then you fired WS the mob and there another one on to you then u know what to do "fired Scatter shot!". If tank didn't taunt it back from during the scatter then you go drop freeze trap.
SV is great doing CC for the raid and dungeons. I love it
Post by
karlusdavius
i think he meant autoshot breaking Wyvern. in which case, no idea.
Post by
Interest
Updated
Casting Trap Launcher, Distracting Shot, and Scare Beast now cancel Auto Shot when cast. This is to make it easier to crowd control creatures with Auto Shot while moving enabled.
They really REALLY just need to fix the autoshot not stopping when target switching.
The Trap Launcher thing is just....dumb.
I see a slew of bugs coming out of that (i.e. stops Autoshot for 15 seconds, even if trap is launched. Stops autoshot permanently)
Post by
Interest
Double posting, but you missed something really big.
The PvE hunter 4-piece set bonus has been redesigned. It now reduces the cast time of Steady Shot and Cobra Shot by .2 seconds.
Under "Items."
Source
Post by
karlusdavius
Updated, nice catch! so haste now needed i less. more crit! yay!
Post by
Interest
Updated, nice catch! so haste now needed i less. more crit! yay!
Yes...Now they need to fix Schnotzz. =D
Post by
335633
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
