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Pugs, Jerks, and Fixes (a bit of a Rant and LONG)
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278980
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533681
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309875
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533681
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Post by
Quesac
Yes I have noticed the decline in player attitudes in the LFG tool. Your fix only serves to reinforce them.
Not sure about that at all. The classic fixes to uncooperative behavior in anonmyous situations where cooperation yeild higher group utility are
1) Reputational information - you get to KNOW taht someone you might cooperate with will not cooperate.
This was the case in BC pugs....when you had to spam TC to get a group formed and people had ways of knowing (either their own memory or the opinions of others) who would pull weight and who was fail.
2) Increasing rewards for cooperation.
Here you try to incent the participants to communicate more, signal, take on commitments, interact to try to drive cooperation. I profered one idea - give a bonus if you have what it takes to get all the way from A to B without switching group composition
3) Increase penalties from uncooperative play.
Here is where there seems to be the most disagreement - with many responders disagreeing that quick kicks/berating ARE uncooperative. Not sure this isn't going to be arbitrary and a line that would have to be finely calibrated. But it isn't intrinsically impossible to do.
Ok, let's say I get in a LFG group for Heroic Whatever. I recognized "Itrollyou" from failserver as an uncooperative player because just 2 days ago he was putting MD on the healer, LULZing us, dropping F bombs and being a total jerk (This has happened to me BTW). The rest of the group also recognizes him as being this way. We should be allowed to kick him BEFORE a wipe just because we know who he is and what he does and we shouldn't be punished for it. Your system would force us to tolerate him until he causes the wipe.
You said it yourself, the player attitude in LFG is going to hell in a wooden handcart. Now you're making it so that they can grief us even more because we'll get punished if we kick them without a wipe, which is what they want.
It's bad enough we have to wait 15 mins, not be rolling on loot, and not have just recently been in combat to votekick these guys. Now you want to put even more restraints on us. I'm not saying the system is perfect, it's far from it. I am saying that whatever "fix" is implemented, has to fix more than it breaks. Your fix doesn't do that.
Post by
Magician22773
Too many things in this post to address them all, so Ill just hit a few points.
First, LFG is messed up, and probably always will be, as there is just no real way to fix all the issues. What isnt broke about it, is what it was designed to do in the first place, make getting dungeon groups easier and faster. My suggestions are either the normal "get a guild run ", or, with so many people at the same stage of progression right now, assemble a group from /trade, then que up. I have found a lot of the problems seem to go away just by putting an 'ol fashioned group together in trade chat.
All of your ideas to help fix LFG are OK, but they all have too many situational counters to them. If you make it too hard to kick a really bad player, then that becomes a new problem. If you make it too easy, you have what we have now.
One thing that would help, and I dont think would be too hard for Blizz to implement would be fixing the iLvl requirement to get into heroics. The need to close up the loopholes with having off-spec, wrong-spec gear just in your inventory, and count only gear equipped. I would like to see it go one step further and either require "proper" gear to be equipped, or require some minimum stats to enter (i.e. min HP and avoidance for tanks, intell for heals, ect)
This big issue is making changes like this require time and effort that can be better directed to new content, de-bugging, ect. And the LFG tool is not a "required" part of the game, so I would not want to see it completly detract from other issues that Dev's could be working on.
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309875
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91278
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533681
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Post by
Quesac
Eh, only the exceptional asshats stick out, same with the exceptional tanks and healers. I tend to remember them and have on occasion run into them more than once. The average joe that does his job, doesn't say a word good or bad, and leaves at the end of it all, I probably don't remember.
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533681
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91278
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Post by
Quesac
Personally, I wouldn't mind going back to the old school BC ways of grinding Heroics. I had a lot of fun back then, I made some very cool online gaming friends, and I almost always knew what I was getting into. Another fix might be for the LFG tool to only work on your server. That way people will have some accountability as far as their rep goes. I know this might not be optimal for low pop servers, but it would help cut down on the grieving that seems to be epidemic on every battlegroup right now.
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533681
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610655
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Post by
minad
Bigger ignore lists. Ignore someone, no risk of being in a pug with them again.
I dont ignore anyones. Because i hear their messages in trade and so. When i want to join raid. I can. Ignore is useless. Report spam is better.
Post by
Adamsm
Bigger ignore lists. Ignore someone, no risk of being in a pug with them again.
I dont ignore anyones. Because i hear their messages in trade and so. When i want to join raid. I can. Ignore is useless. Report spam is better.
Except that doesn't help for LFD.
Post by
Murrdurr
Funny how so many people are raging about this; all while my shaman, warrior, and paladin have not ran into really any bad LFD grps. Sure theres been only a few wipes but everyone I have joined with has generally been nice or just do not talk at all (which I dont mind). Could also be the times of day I queue (Mornings and late night, like after 11pm)
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