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Pugs, Jerks, and Fixes (a bit of a Rant and LONG)
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Post by
DrShadow
If I ever kick a tank, it's because in the time it has taken me to explain the fight and have them fail at the same mechanic three times in a row, I could have kicked them, picked up another tank, and then kicked that tank and picked up ANOTHER tank.
And
When a run loses a member in the middle of an instance, the group is put very close to the front of the queue for a new member. So it can take as little as one minute to find a new tank.
FOR THE WIN!
Lets dissect that for a moment . This reponder's position is now CRYSTAL clear. He places a higher value on the aggregate utility he derives from a clean run and moving onto other WOW/Non-WOW things than he does using that time to explain and suffer fails. And there is nothing WRONG with self-oriented behavior. World runs on it.
But self interest, pursued by all the participants in a group activity, often creates sub-otimal outcomes for the community at large and actually for the individual. Doubly true in a game whose benefits are greater from cooperative behavior. If EVERYONE acted like our responder LFD would collapse. Simple game theory. Go look up the prisoners' delimma.
The key point remains
1) I submit that players are acting like our responder more than they did in WTLK. that is change
. I think what it means is that there are higher payoffs for being a kicker and fewer penalities. Again, simple game theory.
2) That such behavior is subotimal if what we mean by optimal is the aggregation of all the utility all the players derive. Others will argue that isn't true. That optimal is THEIR utility but I really don't care about that at all and really am not interested in talking on a social forum how INDIVIDUALS get more out of a social game. And if you read the OP you would recognize that isn't what I am interested in. The point of the thread is to think about what can improve COMMUNITY untility - recognizing that such fixes often mean that for particular individuals they are not achieving the maximum utility they COULD possible get if they could exploit other players.
3) That fixes in the OP and others later on (whcih are even better) could help this s ....in the above example putting Sinepse further back in the que when he and his group immediately kick the player who asks "Hey guys, haven't been here before. Could you explain some mechanics?" before the first wipe. Remember, he says above that is what he does because it saves HIM time, irrespective of whether such actions, repeated thousands of times by tens of thosands of players, ends up creating community wide a poor outcome.
My goodness it is so satisfying when others make the point for you ;-)
I find this to be a huge double bladed sword so to speak. Lets say this does get implemented. What would happen is simply this: group starts, realizes tank is in dps/healer gear (hypothetical of course...it does happen a lot though) if we kick the tank because he simply is a moron trying to tank in dps gear, WE ARE the ones to get the penalty? No screw that. How to fix that?
Simply this. Have bliz implement a gear checking system like they do for the ILVL thing. Meaning the system would CHECK to see if the gear is tank gear, healer gear, or dps gear and if you queue as a tank and you don’t have tank gear ON then you don't get in, Same for healers, and dps. That would fix every problem in your first suggestion there.
Also I think what the OP is trying to get at is the lack of maturity in people these days. I’ve run with people who are so rude it’s not even funny. I think some people have, as some would call it, is E ball’s meaning they talk a lot of smack over the game but in real life they are ones getting bullied so they make up for it in a reality game which is sad. Just a theory however I’m sure most are just punks to get a reaction out of people.
so how can we fix it? Answer: you.can.not. To the OP. I said it once I shall say it again, if you don't want crappy Heroics. Go with the guild. Simple. I never pug for this very reason, I can't stand rude ignorant people.
Post by
533681
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91278
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533681
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Post by
xaratherus
Think about it this way, because Dr. Shadow perceives that LFD is broken, he is not even USING LFD
I corrected your statement.
I could
perceive
that PvP is broken because I don't always win my matches, and thus avoid all PvP combat - but that statement only holds true
for me
, and that seems to be the point that you're missing.
Again: I have observational data that shows no major increase in rude behavior over Wrath. If your experience is different, then that's fine - but be ready when people call you on claiming something to be universally true, when some of us have observed that it's
not
.
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334295
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533681
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533681
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Post by
NeoBlackheart
I can agree on 1 part they need to have harsher drop penalties and better complete a run promotions.
maybe if you were in the group the whole run you get double the points at the end of the run or a bump in que time next que if you que right away even if you drop group.. such as you do an instance first to finish and reque your now half way up the que.
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533681
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278980
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533681
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Post by
DrShadow
you are correct. I do not use the LFD at 85. Because 1) its alot harder then wrath and I perfer to run with smart people that I KNOW know what they are doing. I run with guildies or friends from my server. and I again suggest you do as well. that would solve all these issues.
but again I really do think my suggestion of adding on to the ilvl system bliz sets up by adding in a thing that looks at the players gear and spec. so it wont let a player que as a tank in dps gear. or a healer que up in tank gear. you guys get what I meen? its a really easy fix I think. Solve all these bad issues at least at 85. although I do see how it would have some issues in lower levels, that is fixed by at least making it from 80+ then again the issue here is not about the gear but the maturity of people. which again can not be fixed, people are who they are in game, punks are punks.
You can't fix rude people or as a man once said "'You can't fix stupid"'
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611800
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tragaleche
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