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Guide to 4.2.0 Cataclysm Holy Paladins
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Post by
292580
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Now, understand that I am not saying that the way I would handle the situation is not that much better than yours. If we add in some subjective values (This is where my algebra falls short, sorry, generalizations are all I can do here) such as a Divine Light averages ~33k, Holy Shock averages ~7k, 2 PotI averages 3.8k each, and a 2 Holy Power WoG, 8k. Now to look at what your gaining.
Using the subjective values I mentioned (Feel free to change them on your own, they should be different based on your gear compared to mine) simple addition says that yours healed for 55200, where as mine healed for 63400, assuming only 1 PotI proc from the DL/HS.
The differences are that I spent 1874 more mana than you did, however, My healing was more focused on the target in the most danger (the tank). Also, my sequence ended on a GCD where as yours didn't. Most of my healing was put out in the beginning of my sequence, because I got a DL off ~1.9 seconds in, where as your first DL was ~3.4 seconds in (GCD from switching your beacon+DL cast time), after 3.4 seconds I would be able to get my 2 HoPo WoG off, too. Also, my method allows for a better glyph to be used in place of the Glyph of Beacon of Light. Of course, I most likely would use my WoG with 2 holy power, however, for the sake of isolating the situation, I am going to say I did.
I feel like I'm missing something, but that's where I am going to end it.
I don't know what amount of time you put into that jibberish but it was utterly wasted.
There's no kind of even remote logic to what you're arguing.
A DL averaging 33k would require about, 15k SP. While a HS averaging 7k would only require 6.5k SP and a 2 HoPo 8k WoG would require about 8k SP. See the problem here?
So to make an actual comparison:
Bacon on DPS:
22k DL on the tank.
11k bacon on the DPS.
4k PotI on the DPS
37k total for 7027 mana (5.26 HPM)
Bacon on tank:
22k DL on the tank
4k PotI on the tank
7k HS on the DPS
3.5k bacon on the tank
36.5k total for 8901 mana (4.1 HPM)
So basically you heal for 500 less but spend 1900 more mana, which means Rouen is 30% more effective than you are).
PS Svirve, Srvive=/= Svirve just as Beacon=/=Bacon.
Beacon
- A bright shining individual that stands out among others. The know all be all end all for all things.
Bacon
- Delicious strips of juicy, pork heaven. Served often at breakfast with eggs, but perfectly good served alone and at any time of day.
So by that logic, svirve = beacon, bacon = bacon.
Post by
292580
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Your not accounting for PotI hitting me. PotI does not heal for 4k through the beacon. Using your values, let me fix your "tables"
Who cares about PotI hitting the caster? It's going to hit for the same amount for both players. And yea it doesnt hit for 4k through bacon, but still doesn't matter since there's the same amount of PotIs for both setups.
X==X -.-
Also worth noting, you didn't add crit into your averages.
You're the one that threw away haste because you claimed the two scenarios were made by the same player, which means that comparing crit is as worthless as caring about the number the PotIs heal for.
^^^^^PLUS^^^^^
~7k WoG on DPS
~3.5k WoG (B) on Tank
4k PotI on Myself
2k PotI (B) on Tank
Total (With WoG)=~55k/8901 mana=6.179 HPM
Now you're a cheater as well? Well i can give you an example that's gonna beat both those in healing done and HPM.
I do 10 HS's, 5 on the tank and 5 on the DPS with bacon on the tank.
35k HS on the Tank
17.5k bacon on the tank
35k HS on the DPS
40k PotI on myself
20k PotI on the tank
142.5k total for 18 730 mana or 7.6 HPM.
See I win, all I had to do was cheat! I had 10 GCDs and used an ability with a 6 second CD.
Post by
292580
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
581897
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Why am I even answering a dumb post like this?
All my healing was put out in the same amount of time that his was put out, 3.4 seconds. The difference is I ended on a GCD.
Even if you didn't add a WoG into my scenario, thats still, like I said, 38.5k healing in
1.9
seconds, ending on a GCD, instead of the other scenario where the first heal lands 3.4 seconds in. Also, although mine looks less mana efficient, I have 2 Holy Power to cast a mana free heal, If used, I would become more mana efficient then the person in the first scenario.
Plus, I get another glyph spot.
So you're assuming that after 3.4 seconds there is no more incoming damage?
Cause if there wasn't then sure you'd be ahead. But if there is the other example would be.
Yes in 1.9 seconds you would've healed that, but it's the same amount of healing done OVER 3.4 seconds since you cant take any other action. Leaving your point only valid if the tank were to be gibbed during those 1.5 seconds.
Once again with the cheating, you can't isolate an event and then add circumstances to favor your scenario. Sure you've got 2 HoPo more but that would only make a difference over a longer set of time, now you're comparing two scenarios spending 2 GCDs each.
You're the one who set the parameters so stop whining about it.
Don't make an example if it's gonna be wrong. Don't QQ when your horrible example gets bashed.
Especially don't blame your horrible example on someone else.
Post by
292580
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Post by
Brique
I've found a place for Glyph of Beacon of Light in BoT. During the Halfus Wyrmbreaker encounter tanks will take a stacking healing debuff. It's just not all that sensical to have your Beacon target take 20% healing and I found myself switching pretty often. Totally situational, but that's the case with major glyphs. None of them are useful "no matter what". Glyph of Lay on Hands is totally useless on a fight that lasts shorter than 7 minutes, Glyph of Cleansing is useless in a raid where you don't dispel, Glyph of Beacon of Light is useless on fights where you can maintain Beacon for the whole encounter on a single target, etc.
Post by
292580
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Post by
166779
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Post by
Flonnette
Maybe it is by design that although the Prime Glyphs are fixed by convention, the Major Glyphs are a bit more dynamic. Depending on the fight and assignment, swapping one or two Major Glyphs makes a lot of sense. Although Blizzard probably isn't interested in reducing the cost of the dust they should at least put the dust on squires and pages for "emergency" role swaps.
Post by
166779
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Post by
166779
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Post by
Brique
You should revise again. Conviction was fixed a while ago.
I'm tracking
procs on my raid nights with WoL parses and I'm getting between 8 to 10 on a five minute encounter. I'm noticing that it's not exactly recommended here and I'm just flat out confused on why you haven't looked into it.
My Thoughts:
Using
Word of Glory
is usually a pretty simple decision for me. I don't like to sit on HP that often, usually treating WoG like the chaser to a casted heal when I know it will keep a tank up, or I'll end up just sniping a raid heal with it. Looking at my HP gains, Eternal Glory tops the rest of the secondary ways to get HP. On the average fight, I'm getting 6 or 7 gains from
and 4 or 5 gains from
. The gains from ToR are just that occasional clutch healing you'll notice you need to cover your Beacon target with and that should be the best secondary way to gain HP, but it just isn't necessary at all.
Sometimes I'm using
Crusader Strike
on less intensive healing phases just to stack up HP, and that's very rare for me. It's still worth mentioning that this can dwarf ToR and BL gains by just using it simply on occasion.
Also, with fights where I'm moving a lot, Ascendant Council + Al'Akir, I rely on WoG more often and I'm seeing about double the normal HP gains from it. On longer fights like Cho'Gall I'm seeing it double as well.
I'm thinking that this is pretty normal for a 10man raiding where getting
Light of Dawn
to actually hit enough targets is totally situational. In 25mans I'm sure I'll see the number of EG procs drop.
In regards to ToR and BL gains being so low, I'm not going to look into where points could be spent instead to help in raiding. The gains from BL are great for one talent point being dumped into it, and ToR is great in certain encounters just due to the reliable utility. Due to both WoG and LoD scaling linearly it's not a huge priority to purposefully get a full 3 HP unless you're playing around with our Mastery, but the usage of HP with WoG seems to come down to
free clutch healing
, and I think that's a huge part of playing a Holy Paladin. I recommend the talent entirely.
Post by
166779
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
I'm just getting back to this thread and looks like I missed out on a lot of debate, but I'm sensing much hostility. I'm not trying to flame/troll nor am I stating everything I say is gospel. Am I trying to justify the use of the glyph? Yes, but I also saying it's not great on many encounters. The goal is to debate the merits of the glyph in the hopes that it won't be dismissed so easily.
Are you deliberately misspelling my name to piss me off or you just read it wrong?
I don't think you realize how many times I have to scroll up to see how your name is spelled correctly whenever I'm engaged in debate with you. In my head, I say your name as "Survive."
By the way, since you're gonna be the heretic must mean I'm the all powerful force you're "herecing" against, nothing really new then.
Now now, I said
peers.
I know stroking feels nice, but you shouldn't do it so conspicuously. :)
I was critiquing the fact that when your tank was getting WTFPWND you took the time to play around with your bacon.
This sounds so.... so wrong. Into my signature block it goes!
To elaborate on this, I would have done 40800 healing to the tank and 15000 healing to the dps, with 7600 coming from the PotI procs (1 from HL/HS, 1 from WoG). You would be doing 33,000 to the tank, 18400 healing to the DPS, and 3800 healing to yourself.
I'm highlighting this tidbit from your original, larger post because I don't want to make a wall text here, but just infer that I have. I did read it all of it.
I'll keep my rebuttal simple because I have a lot of ground to cover. The greatest response to the opposition against my example of making use of the glyph boils down to "GCD Hog."
A massive list of math I wrote
Probably should have scrolled down more before I started banging out numbers for an hour with commentary to boot.
So to make an actual comparison:
Bacon on DPS:
22k DL on the tank.
11k bacon on the DPS.
4k PotI on the DPS
37k total for 7027 mana (5.26 HPM)
Bacon on tank:
22k DL on the tank
4k PotI on the tank
7k HS on the DPS
3.5k bacon on the tank
36.5k total for 8901 mana (4.1 HPM)
So basically you heal for 500 less but spend 1900 more mana, which means Rouen is 30% more effective than you are).
^ Basically this.
Will you have the GCD to spare at the start: Not usually.
Do all fights have consistent tank swaps: No.
Will many fights favor GoDP or GoDivinity over GoBoL: Of course!
Will I use GoDP and GoDivinity in more situations than GoBoL: You bet your light loving @$$.
Do I love holy paladins enough to stand alone and fight for the merits of a single glyph most of the community might disregard/disagree with: Unfortunately :(
So by that logic, svirve = beacon, bacon = bacon.
Conspicuous stroking got Pee Wee thrown in jail!
I couldn't resist lol
Post by
166779
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Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
166779
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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