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My rant about fire mages
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Post by
storyr
Haste does affect the GCD and has since BC.
Post by
752192
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
delani
Haste does affect the GCD and has since BC.
Ah, see that where I was mistaken, I was not aware that haste could lower the GCD, but now that I am, and that haste can not lower the GCD any lower then 1.00 seconds, heres the math to back up my rotation over just pure scorch spam.
Using the numbers posted
here
here is the math to back up my claim.
For pure scorch spam, over 100 casts you looking at
((9650*20.87)+(4844*79.13)) = 584,701.22 damage.
Expected critical strikes: 20.71
Now, I'm going to assume for a second that Haste affects the GCD and Scorch the same amount, as both start out at 1.5 seconds base. So your Scorch cast time is going to match your GCD.
This means at if your scorch is casting slower then 1.33sec, you use a 4:1 rotation. If it is between 1.33 and 1.14 then you use a 5:1 rotation, if it is between 1.14 and 1.00 seconds, use a 6:1 rotation, and if scorch is caster faster then 1.00 seconds, use a 7:1 rotation.
Anything lower then 1.00 is limited by the Global Cooldown, as no amount of haste is going to give you faster then a 1.00 sec GCD, and any spell that casts faster then 1.00 seconds is still limited by the GCD.
So, now that haste is accounted for, lets see how the different rotations stack up to the control of pure scorch spam.
4:1 or 80:20 scorch:fire blast
80*.2071 = 16.568, 80 - 16.568 = 63.432
20*.2871 = 5.742, 20 - 5.742 = 14.258
((9850*16.568)+(4844*63.432)+(8871*5.742)+(4612*14.258))
587,154.586 damage, with an expected (16.568 + 5.742)= 22.31 critical strikes
5:1 or 83.33:16.67 scorch:fire blast
83.33*.2071 = 17.258, 83.33 - 17.258 = 66.072
16.67*.2871 = 4.786, 16.67 - 4.786 = 11.884
((9850*17.258)+(4844*66.072)+(8871*4.786)+(4612*11.884))
587,309.682 damage, with an expected (17.258 + 4.786)= 22.044 critical strikes
6:1 or 85.714:14.286 scorch:fire blast
85.714*.2071 = 17.751, 85.714 - 17.751 = 67.962
14.286*.2871 = 4.102, 14.286 - 4.102 = 10.184
((9850*17.751)+(4844*67.962)+(8871*4.102)+(4612*10.184)
587,412.728 damage, with an expected (17.751 + 4.102)=21.853 criticl strikes
7:1 or 87.5:12.5 scorch:fire blast
87.5*.2071 = 18.121, 87.5 - 18.121 = 69.379
12.5*.2871 = 3.589, 12.5 - 3.589 = 8.911
((9850*18.121)+(4844*69.379)+(8871*3.589)+(4612*8.911))
587,499.277 damage, with an expected (18.121 + 3.589)=21.71 critical strikes
So, at any of the above ratios, its still higher then the control of pure scorch spam at the 20.71% crit rate, in both increased damage, and increased expected crit. The different ratios take into account different haste values.
Any other things i have to prove via math to make my point more clear? While Scorch does do slightly more damage, the increased crit from Fire Blast allows it to increase the overall crit of a rotation in which you use fire blast each cooldown. This rotation should only be used during movement phases, and as some movement phases are longer then others, you may even be able to get away with a 2:1 or 3:1 rotation depending on the amount of movement per fight.
The more often you use fire blast, the more mana it is going to cost you, but as I've already proven its basically using very small percents of the mana you could've used on fireball, you would have to move a lot throught a fight to negatively impact your mana bar. Master of Elements plays a large factor in regaining back your spent mana, as MoE can not proc from scorch spam alone, and fire blast has a much higher critical strike chance, thus MoE benefits it more.
Post by
storyr
uhhh 2:1 and 3:1 with an 8 second cooldown...
Post by
delani
uhhh 2:1 and 3:1 with an 8 second cooldown...
Yea, 2:1 and 3:1 with a 8 second cooldown as your only going to be moving for 3 or so seconds, ever so often. And if your forced to move for a few seconds, every 8 seconds, then you can literally do a 2:1 or 3:1 rotation, with the cooldown, as fire blast will be off cooldown by the time you need to use it again (as in, during that next time you have to move)
Makes sense? As per the example I put in a different thread
So if you only have to move for 3 seconds, every 20 seconds, then for the first 3 seconds, your casting 2 scorches, then the next 3 seconds, 2 more scorches, then the next 3 seconds you throw a fire blast, and 1 scorch. Its that simple. Now that example is using base cast times, so at higher haste values you will be able to get more scorches into the rotation.
Post by
storyr
Oh no need to explain yourself, I am never going to spec into improved fireblast as it's completely pointless off of paper and spreadsheets.
Regardless, it no longer becomes a "rotation."
Hell, none of the ratios are rotations, you can't cast another fireblast after you do 5:1.
Post by
delani
Oh no need to explain yourself, I am never going to spec into improved fireblast as it's completely pointless off of paper and spreadsheets.
Regardless, it no longer becomes a "rotation."
Hell, none of the ratios are rotations, you can't cast another fireblast after you do 5:1.
Why couldn't you? 5:1 means scorch, scorch, scorch, scorch, scorch, fire blast repeat, which with 1.33 to 1.15 cast times on scorch, you can easily do that rotation. 1.33 sec GCD 1.33 * 6 spells = 8 (well, 7.98, but close enough), which is the cooldown of fire blast.
So how is it not a rotation? A rotation is a series of spells that you can repeat indefinitely, and 5:1 repeats in the exactly time you need it to, 8 secs.
Post by
karlusdavius
This argument still going? it doesn't work in movement environments. You will not be moving that much. Your post on EJ wasn't picked up by anyone important and they said that its highly situational, RAWR cannot simulate movement, therefore cannot be accurately proven to be an increase. RAWR is better than your spreadsheet, if RAWR cannot do it, your spreadsheet can't.
Fireblast does not do more damage than scorch. It is easy to prove and it has been proven.
You are taking two talent points that can be put elsewhere and are better. In addition, those 2 talent points are so, so highly situational that if you don't move during a fight, they are wasted. Granted, chances are you will, but I'll come onto that later.
Even if you did use the "rotation", if you proc HS from your first two scorches, those talent points are wasted as you have the end result you are after without using the thin you wanted to use in the first place.
Proc HS from the 2nd and 3rd scorches, talent points are wasted
Proc HS from the last 2 scorches, Wasted talent points.
Always proc HS from your scorches, fireblast is useless.
Other spells are more important, such as LB dropping off Talent points wasted.
To conclude, your spreadsheet takes into account
the perfect situation
with no lag. That will never happen. Ever. Scorch beats fireblast on damage and the fact that it can be spammed and is
free
for one talent point beats out your two talent points and mana cost. I will happily post up a whole heroic dungeons worth of data while using fireblast and scorch to prove that as truth. Failing that, log in and see for yourself. The distance increases with raid and trinket buffs. I think my Scorch beats fireblast by 2kish. thats a decent amount considering ignite damage adding to that.
It is obvious you don't raid as you haven't taken pushback talents. You need those. Like, seriously. Those two talent points you spent in ImpF need to be in pushback talents.
So please, stop looking at your spreadsheet, go outside and get some fresh air. Fire Blast is just not viable for movement phases as
You will not be moving for more than 5 seconds, let alone 8, unless you are kiting adds, in which case you will be using AOE abilities (think Magmaw, or look at a video on it to get the idea).
You say this works when mana isn't an issue, mana is an issue as mana costs are high. Mana management is a big issue for mages now. It is a waste of mana, therefore making scorch a better choice for damage + regen purposes.
You need 2 talent points form elsewhere. You cannot sacrifice 2 talent points from a raiding spec, they are better spent elsewhere.
So if you only have to move for 3 seconds, every 20 seconds, then for the first 3 seconds, your casting 2 scorches, then the next 3 seconds, 2 more scorches, then the next 3 seconds you throw a fire blast, and 1 scorch. Its that simple. Now that example is using base cast times, so at higher haste values you will be able to get more scorches into the rotation.
What if Living bomb drops off? what if HS procs? no need to use that FB as your taking a gloabl with something more important. talent points wasted.
Time to put this to bed i feel.
Post by
vincistis
I don't know where in this thread it turned into a fireblast thing, but anyway, I once got 3 hot streak procs in a row on the same mob.. I was so happy.. but one problem.. it was on a stupid normal mob I had to kill for a quest >.< What a waste of perfectly good hot streaks.
Post by
delani
This argument still going? it doesn't work in movement environments. You will not be moving that much. Your post on EJ wasn't picked up by anyone important and they said that its highly situational, RAWR cannot simulate movement, therefore cannot be accurately proven to be an increase. RAWR is better than your spreadsheet, if RAWR cannot do it, your spreadsheet can't.
I've been having a back and forth with Wizeowel from EJ about my rotation, and while I'm not familiar with whose who on those forums, I would assume he is at lest someone.
Fireblast does not do more damage than scorch. It is easy to prove and it has been proven.
You are taking two talent points that can be put elsewhere and are better. In addition, those 2 talent points are so, so highly situational that if you don't move during a fight, they are wasted. Granted, chances are you will, but I'll come onto that later.
Even if you did use the "rotation", if you proc HS from your first two scorches, those talent points are wasted as you have the end result you are after without using the thin you wanted to use in the first place.
Proc HS from the 2nd and 3rd scorches, talent points are wasted
Proc HS from the last 2 scorches, Wasted talent points.
Always proc HS from your scorches, fireblast is useless.
Other spells are more important, such as LB dropping off Talent points wasted.
Lets see your math then. If it is so easy to prove that Scorch > Fire Blast, lets see your math. Because
here
is mine, and the point in which scorch is more damage then fire blast, its by less then 2%, and the critical increase throws fire blast higher until the threshold point (if even just marginally higher) and anything higher then that is unattainable with current raid level gear.
As you can see from that spreadsheet, at equal levels of spell power, and equal crit (accounting for improved fire blast) Fire Blast does more damage, over time until you hit the threshold. at 5k SP/25% crit, fire blast does 4.59% more damage, at 6k SP/35% crit, fire blast does 2.12% more damage, at 7SP/45% crit (which is CURRENT RAID LEVEL GEARS), fire blast does .12% more damage then scorch. Now, once you approach higher SP/crit limits then current raid level gear, scorch finally gains some ground, but lets see just how high the increase really is. At 8kSP/55% crit, scorch does 1.52% more damage, at 9kSP/65% crit, scorch does .41% higher damage.
That low 8% crit actually matters a significant amount over time, as the damage amounts to being more, and not less. So again, stop trying to tell me something I've already proved with math, unless you want to provide math to back up your claim, like I was forced to do.
The math on that spreadsheet also takes into account hitting HS procs, and refreshing living bomb, hell that 4:1 rotation even has a .5 sec gap in it to give you time to use HS procs and refresh living bomb. The math already supports the argument you just presented. Provide actual numbers that shows it is a decrease and I'll shut up. No really, you do the math, like I had to, and I will drop the argument entirely.
To conclude, your spreadsheet takes into account
the perfect situation
with no lag. That will never happen. Ever. Scorch beats fireblast on damage and the fact that it can be spammed and is
free
for one talent point beats out your two talent points and mana cost. I will happily post up a whole heroic dungeons worth of data while using fireblast and scorch to prove that as truth. Failing that, log in and see for yourself. The distance increases with raid and trinket buffs. I think my Scorch beats fireblast by 2kish. thats a decent amount considering ignite damage adding to that.
Actually I would LOVE to see an entire heroic ran with my rotation, assuming you follow it to the letter. Because fireball spam will always trump any other rotation you do, so you'll only be using my rotation when you would've just spammed scorch, which in any given heroic is at most a couple minutes.
Oh, and be sure to repeat this same test multiple times over, as 1 test does not disprove a theory. to quote Thomas Eddison I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison So by all means, test my theory. Play with it, actually spec into Improved Fire Blast and run it. Tell me you won't have higher crit rates over time, then prove it. Of course if you don't want to do the work, I can totally understand, but the general theme that I was presented with when I first had this idea, was to show my math, and do the work. You want to disprove my theory, you do the work.
It is obvious you don't raid as you haven't taken pushback talents. You need those. Like, seriously. Those two talent points you spent in ImpF need to be in pushback talents.
So please, stop looking at your spreadsheet, go outside and get some fresh air. Fire Blast is just not viable for movement phases as
I do find the irony in you telling me to redo my spec for raiding, then tell me to go outside and get some fresh air. As I don't raid, I have time to go outside. Just ya know, food for thought.
You will not be moving for more than 5 seconds, let alone 8, unless you are kiting adds, in which case you will be using AOE abilities (think Magmaw, or look at a video on it to get the idea).
You say this works when mana isn't an issue, mana is an issue as mana costs are high. Mana management is a big issue for mages now. It is a waste of mana, therefore making scorch a better choice for damage + regen purposes.
You need 2 talent points form elsewhere. You cannot sacrifice 2 talent points from a raiding spec, they are better spent elsewhere.
Point 1 is about movement phases, which you've already answered yourself below on, and if HS procs, or you need to refresh living bomb, then obviously do that instead of a scorch, especially when the math shows that fire blast is doing more damage then scorch. If Fire Blast is on cooldown, then use scorch. It really is that simple. What is so hard about adjusting on the fly? Isn't that what raids are all about?
Point 2 Has already been gone over multiple times, both
here
and
here
, which I'll quote just so you can see it - 31th Jan: Rewrote parts of the "Mana Management" section. It now mentions that it was originally intended for a time when Fireball cost 16% Base Mana, and might no longer be as relevant when Fireball is nerfed to 9%. The knowhow of what to do in desperate mana circumstances, however, is still valuable. Added a few lines regarding Ignite Munching to the "FFB as Filler" section. So mana is indeed a non issue.
Here is some more math for you to look over, as you still haven't provided any numbers yourself. Fire blast uses 21% base mana every cast, but it has a 8 second cooldown, so you really only using 2.62% base mana every cast, assuming you use it every cooldown. FireBALL on the other hand uses 12% base mana, with a base cast time of 2.5 seconds, so every cast your using 4.8% mana per second. Now, lets say you have enough haste to get fireball down to a 2 seconds cast time (within reason with current raid gear) Your now looking at 6% base mana PER SECOND. Fire blast is limited by its cooldown, so its mana per second will never change, and while scorch is free, your only using it to conserve mana so you can cast more fireballs, which I've already proved that fire blast, used every cooldown, will use about 10% of the mana you would've used on fireball. Which means you have to use that rotation 10 times before you lose 1 fireball, meaning a solid 80 seconds.
Point 3 is about talent points, which boils down to players choice. Don't like Cauterize? Grab Improved Fire Blast. Don't want that extra point in Pyromaniac? Have extra haste? There's a free point from Netherwind Presence. So, again, players options. Raid specs are meant to adjusted, which even Elitist Jerks mentions.
So if you only have to move for 3 seconds, every 20 seconds, then for the first 3 seconds, your casting 2 scorches, then the next 3 seconds, 2 more scorches, then the next 3 seconds you throw a fire blast, and 1 scorch. Its that simple. Now that example is using base cast times, so at higher haste values you will be able to get more scorches into the rotation.
Time to put this to bed i feel.
Prove some math, and I will put this to bed, until then, any math > no math. and currently you have no math to back up your claim. So, maybe you should provide some, like I had to.
Post by
karlusdavius
Math math math. get off your spreadsheet and to a dungeon yourself. You don't NEED MATH! your point is DOA before math is even needed.
Fire Blast does more damage,
over time
until you hit the threshold.
So you agree that fireblast does less damage than scorch upfront? good, were getting somewhere. This over time thing you have going on doesn't sit well. what time? maybe there is no movement? it's so SITUATIONAL! there are too many problems.
I'll give you an example that you know. Take Erudax in Grim Batol during add phase. I run up, blast wave to slow them, living bomb then proceed to scorch. In your opinion, i should do 5xscorch then FB. FB does less damage, the mob i'm on less than 10% health, do i use something that i know hits for less than scorch? or do i scorch again knowing i need the damage?
That kind of scorch use is the same elsewhere. you are giving examples in your math from content you have no even attempted yet. you do not know or cannot comprehend how much movement is involved to justify two debatable talent points.
ALL of these points need to the valid before you even ATTEMPT math on the topic. Your argument falls down before any of what you have done comes into play. It has no foundation to stand on.
hell that 4:1 rotation even has a .5 sec gap in it to give you time to use HS procs and refresh living bomb.
GCD is 1 second. 0.5 seconds does nothing. It seems you lack the wider scope of a broad approach. You have tunnel vision. Unfortunately, your argument is DOA because so many variables are involved. You need to define this "over time" you are talking about. It' just doesn't work like you say it does.
Post by
delani
Math math math. get off your spreadsheet and to a dungeon yourself. You don't NEED MATH! your point is DOA before math is even needed.
Fire Blast does more damage,
over time
until you hit the threshold.
So you agree that fireblast does less damage than scorch upfront? good, were getting somewhere. This over time thing you have going on doesn't sit well. what time? maybe there is no movement? it's so SITUATIONAL! there are too many problems.
I'll give you an example that you know. Take Erudax in Grim Batol during add phase. I run up, blast wave to slow them, living bomb then proceed to scorch. In your opinion, i should do 5xscorch then FB. FB does less damage, the mob i'm on less than 10% health, do i use something that i know hits for less than scorch? or do i scorch again knowing i need the damage?
That kind of scorch use is the same elsewhere. you are giving examples in your math from content you have no even attempted yet. you do not know or cannot comprehend how much movement is involved to justify two debatable talent points.
ALL of these points need to the valid before you even ATTEMPT math on the topic. Your argument falls down before any of what you have done comes into play. It has no foundation to stand on.
hell that 4:1 rotation even has a .5 sec gap in it to give you time to use HS procs and refresh living bomb.
GCD is 1 second. 0.5 seconds does nothing. It seems you lack the wider scope of a broad approach. You have tunnel vision. Unfortunately, your argument is DOA because so many variables are involved. You need to define this "over time" you are talking about. It' just doesn't work like you say it does.
Over time? seriously? This game is based on math. The equations work no matter what your looking at. Look at it. Over TIME MEANS DPS. DAMAGE PER SECOND. which means OVER TIME. Seriously. If i have to explain that Damage Per Second is basically Damage OVER TIME then its not even worth going over with you.
GCD is 1.5 sec base. Not 1.0. Unless you have 33% haste (which is impossible without lust/bers/trinkets at current gear levels)
Prove your math. Because this game is based on math. You do a set amount of damage because MATH SAYS YOU DO.
Here ya go. Lets take your example. Scorch does 4444.2 damage, fire blast does 4657.94 damage. Would it it better to do (4444.2 * 5) damage, or ((4444.2*4) +4657.94) damage? Hint, its not the (4444.2*5)
Post by
karlusdavius
Here ya go. Lets take your example. Scorch does 4444.2 damage, fire blast does 4657.94 damage. Would it it better to do (4444.2 * 5) damage, or ((4444.2*4) +4657.94) damage? Hint, its not the (4444.2*5)
Not on my game, those numbers are wrong.
6050 SP constant.
fb norm - 4656
FB crit - 9335
SC Norm - 4873
SC Crit - 9770
Scorch does more damage foe me.
Naked however, FB does more damage than SC. so it seems that the more gear you get, the more worthless FB becomes as scorch overtakes it. That increase is very rapid. So at raid levels of SP for me (8,1xx+) scorch is doing around 500 more damage. The higher up the tiers we go, the more and more worthless FB is.
Which brings me nicely to your point of progress. You do not have the gear to see the numbers i am getting. Scorch is the better option even over time. and over time is a broad term, it didn't have to mean DPS.
Like i said, your whole theory is DOA because it is so highly situation. You will not be using FB, scorch is the better option. You will not be moving for more than 3 seconds. Get better gear, and find out for yourself. oh, and raid. actually do something that requires movement.
Math isn't needed.
Post by
delani
Here ya go. Lets take your example. Scorch does 4444.2 damage, fire blast does 4657.94 damage. Would it it better to do (4444.2 * 5) damage, or ((4444.2*4) +4657.94) damage? Hint, its not the (4444.2*5)
Not on my game, those numbers are wrong.
6050 SP constant.
fb norm - 4656
FB crit - 9335
SC Norm - 4873
SC Crit - 9770
Scorch does more damage foe me.
Naked however, FB does more damage than SC. so it seems that the more gear you get, the more worthless FB becomes as scorch overtakes it. That increase is very rapid. So at raid levels of SP for me (8,1xx+) scorch is doing around 500 more damage. The higher up the tiers we go, the more and more worthless FB is.
Which brings me nicely to your point of progress. You do not have the gear to see the numbers i am getting. Scorch is the better option even over time. and over time is a broad term, it didn't have to mean DPS.
Like i said, your whole theory is DOA because it is so highly situation. You will not be using FB, scorch is the better option. You will not be moving for more than 3 seconds. Get better gear, and find out for yourself. oh, and raid. actually do something that requires movement.
Math isn't needed.
Run the numbers again, this time look at critical strike chances, with improved Fire Blast. Yes, scorch may do more damage, but fire blast crits more, so fire blast still passes scorch. Thats what my math is showing.
And if your not moving for more then 3 seconds, then fire blast becomes even more valuable, due to the higher crit % being active more often. Thats the argument here. Higher Crit. Which your numbers just show me the spell power Co-E. Actually take a look at that spreadsheet, and it covers even your SP values (8k you said? yep, about 500 damage increase, but fire blast will crit more often, so it pulls out ahead.)
Lets assume you have 35% base crit (which is probably accurate given you gear levels) so you have 43% crit on fire blast (due to improved fire blast) so.. we're looking at these numbers
((9770*.35)+(4873*.65)) or about 6586.95 scorch damage on average, counting critical chances
((9335*.43)+(4656*.57)) or about 6667.97 fire blast damage on average, counting critical chances
So again, would you rather do (6586.95*5) or ((6586.95*4+6667.97)) again, this is using YOUR OWN NUMBERS.
Really its not that hard. The numbers DO NOT CHANGE at higher gear levels. So i don't have to raid to run the numbers. The spell co-Efficient is still the same regardless, and with improved fire blast, you still have 8% higher crit on fire blast.
By all means, keep making jabs at my lack of 'experience' because in the grand scheme of things, aside from you, and others in wowhead, it doesn't matter. Elitist Jerks is backing ME on this, as my math proves it, and it doesn't matter my experience in the situations if the math backs it up, which is does.
Post by
storyr
One person showing minor interest in your post does't mean "they" are backing you on this. LOL
Post by
delani
One person showing minor interest in your post does't mean "they" are backing you on this. LOL
But it does mean that people smarter then you are actually paying attention, and not telling me I'm wrong. So by all means, keep arguing.
And didn't you leave this thread Storyr? or can you just not get enough?
Post by
karlusdavius
jesus lord i see what storyr is on about. your too stubborn. Sorry, your math shows naff all. It is so subjective. Numbers are showing, right there in your FACE! that scorch is doing MORE DAMAGE!
MORE DAMAGE!
crit chance is RNG! just because you have 8% more chance to crit, doesn't mean it WILL crit.
Utter fail. im sorry, but you are wrong. math is not the be all and end all. I'm fairly sure even GC has said that.
I give up, you will never get it and nor will you ever be a decent mage.
Post by
delani
jesus lord i see what storyr is on about. your too stubborn. Sorry, your math shows naff all. It is so subjective. Numbers are showing, right there in your FACE! that scorch is doing MORE DAMAGE!
MORE DAMAGE!
crit chance is RNG! just because you have 8% more chance to crit, doesn't mean it WILL crit.
Utter fail. im sorry, but you are wrong. math is not the be all and end all. I'm fairly sure even GC has said that.
I give up, you will never get it and nor will you ever be a decent mage.
Math is actually the end all be all, as thats what MMOs (as in all of them) are based around. Really, do any amount of coding, or solving, its gonna include math.
Yes, the 8% crit is random, but on average, it means more damage. That why you average things. I'm sorry you can't quite understand that this game you play basically boils down to math.
And its right there in your face as well, when you factor in crit, fire blast does more damage. It really is that simple. You have to average things out to account for RNG. Or else, like you, you will be doing less damage, when you could be doing more.
Fire mage DPS is BASED around RNG, so the more RNG you have, the higher your DPS. Hot streak proves that already. Prove I'm wrong, using math, as in the same stuff I'm doing, and I'll back off. Until then, the math is correct, and you would be one that is wrong.
Post by
karlusdavius
Wrong. Fireblast does not do more damage because it has an increased 8% crit chance. You can cast 10 FB's and still not get a crit. Yet the next 10 you cast could be. Do not think just because you have a higher crit chance it will happen. Taht's not how probability works.
That aside, you have to actually use the thing in order for it to crit. you can see from my post above that scorch is more damage (straight up, in your face more) damage. Even when moving, which isn't that much, you will cast maybe 15 max FB's on a raid encounter. all of which, could potentially not crit.
Your avoiding the fact that it is such a situational thing. two talent points are no worth it. Which is why your math has no legs to stand on and why no math is needed to counter it.
Post by
storyr
Funny, punched into a sim it looks like your math is wrong. AND IT'S YOUR OWN POST. "Anyone have any idea what else I could change on my sim to give a more accurate proposal? "
Sounds to me like you're asking "Anyone know what I can do so my math doesn't come out as wrong in a sim?"
http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110187-cataclysm_mage_simulators_formulators/p9/
Also, let me refer to my previous post.
Again, since I am done being delicate, you are nothing new. Mages in bad gear who have never seen more than the first two bosses of any raid until they well outgear it show up all the time spouting off about how THEY think something is better because it makes more sense to THEIR individual play style. They come around and say "Don't listen to the guys at EJ because they have no idea what they're talking about" and blah blah blah, like you have any clue. You come in here talking about raids like you have experience, hell you barely have cata heroic dungeon experience.
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