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Alliance favoritism proven.
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Post by
tuckmuck203
I'm bad at writing, so I'm just going to lay out my proof.
In battle for gilneas:
They have easy access to both mine and water works, without even needing to cross the river. Horde have to jump across the river just to get to waterworks, which takes longer, which means that they can get reinforcements between thier two bases a lot easier than we can ours.
And it's blatantly obvious too! Not to mention easy as hell to fix. They could just randomize where horde and alliance start.
The racial buffs are overpowered, as well. Picture this. Draenei arms warrior. He just killed a guy, so he can heal...what is it, 25? 30% of his health? Instantly, as soon as he gets in melee range of someone, which is easy considering all the gap closers they have (Not QQing, just stating a fact. I play a frost mage, so I don't mind much about warriors :P) So right after they killed the guy, they pop gift. Let's say it takes them 6 seconds between getting the killing blow and hitting the next guy with victory rush. Assuming he has a measly 100k health, just just healed himself for 36k, and then a total of 50k health, without even taken into consideration second wind.
The human racial lets them carry two trinkets. Look at how powerful trinkets are nowadays, and tell me that isn't OP. Now, I'm not saying that the 3 minute racial was better, because that was completely useless. I think they should just ditch the idea entirely and give them something else for a racial.
I'm not going to talk about AV, because the bridge thing can be used as a benefit for either side.
Most of the other stuff is fairly balanced, but these two are actually kind of blatantly obvious, and I can't think of anything else right now.I'll update if anything else strikes me.
Thoughts?
Post by
Azazel
Hahahahaha.
Post by
Treskol
Here we go.
Racial changes were brought up to level with the Horde ones, quit the qq.
Surprised it took this long to be honest.
Post by
tuckmuck203
There's a difference between bringing them up to level with the horde racials, and making them OP. Enlighten me as to how a 40% sprint that stacks with other effects is as powerful as a 20% haste buff for 10 seconds?
I'm not saying that the haste buff doesn't have it's uses, but it's certainly not as blatantly OP as the other examples from the alliance. What do you think the strongest horde racial is? The 2 second silence blood elves get?
How is that comparable to an extra trinket slot, or a heal that heals for 4% of your health every 3 seconds for 15 seconds? Assuming you have 100k health, which is rather suboptimal gear, that's 4k every 3 seconds. That's a lot of health.
More fair would be 10% or 15%.
Oh, and don't even try to say that battle for gilneas is balanced. That's complete and utter bull@#$%, and you're an idiot if you think you can argue against it.
Edit: Oh, and I'm not QQing. I'm just pointing out the favoritism. I still win roughly 50% of my battlegrounds, which I'm perfectly happy with. What I will say is that I saw a pve geared draenei blood DK today in battle for gilneas, and he had 176k health. I find it doubtful that even 4 on one would have taken him down.
Post by
Treskol
There's a difference between bringing them up to level with the horde racials, and making them OP.
Yeah there is, but not here.
Enlighten me as to how a 40% sprint that stacks with other effects is as powerful as a 20% haste buff for 10 seconds? The worgen buff was unnecessary, I agree, but the others were needed. You need to see this from Blizzards perspective, this game is primarily PvE focused, whether you like it or not, and they need to get that sorted as well.
Currently
Worgen > Troll for PvP
Troll > Worgen for PvE
It won't get any more balanced than that.
What do you think the strongest horde racial is? The 2 second silence blood elves get?
That or an Orc, yeah.
2 second silence is pretty good, especially when used on a healer. Stopping them from healing will more or less always ensure a kill, and even if they are fake casting, you have another interrupt you can use to stop the actual cast.
How is that comparable to an extra trinket slot
At the expense of resilience, which is also needed, especially at this early part of the expansion.
or a heal that heals for 4% of your health every 3 seconds for 15 seconds? Assuming you have 100k health, which is rather suboptimal gear, that's 4k every 3 seconds. That's a lot of health.
Yeah. If you can't do just under 2k dps for 20 seconds, you deserve to lose. Do you believe Recuperate is overpowered as well?
If you crit 15k (not unreasonable in any way) then that negates three ticks of the heal, which is plenty, even more so when it only has five ticks to begin with. That is no more unbalanced than any self heal ability.
Horde Racials are most often used offensively, with the exception of Blood Elf, and then Alliance Racials are used defensively, with the exception of Worgen maybe.
Blizzard gave them there own racials because they want game play to be different.
Also, you have to consider, as I stated earlier, this has to be balanced around PvE as well. They need racials that are useful for that aspect of the game, and you have to admit, PvE > PvP in this game in terms of focus for Blizzard. They have always touted it as a PvE game with a thriving PvP environment, not the other way around.
Oh, and I'm not QQing. I'm just pointing out the favoritism.
Yawn, such an over-used excuse for nerfs and other classes/races getting buffs.
There is no favoritism, you just want to try and find these things because you're annoyed/upset/angry about the changes and want to find excuses about it.
I still win roughly 50% of my battlegrounds, which I'm perfectly happy with.
but dude, if Blizzard had Alliance favoritism they would win more than Horde!
What I will say is that I saw a
pve geared
draenei blood DK today in battle for gilneas, and he had 176k health. I find it doubtful that even 4 on one would have taken him down.
Lol'd. No resilience and it won't matter how much health he has, he would still be an easy kill, just longer to take down.
Get a caster
keep out of range
?
Profit.
Post by
681143
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
688014
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
tuckmuck203
There's a difference between bringing them up to level with the horde racials, and making them OP.
Yeah there is, but not here.
Enlighten me as to how a 40% sprint that stacks with other effects is as powerful as a 20% haste buff for 10 seconds? The worgen buff was unnecessary, I agree, but the others were needed. You need to see this from Blizzards perspective, this game is primarily PvE focused, whether you like it or not, and they need to get that sorted as well.
Currently
Worgen > Troll for PvP
Troll > Worgen for PvE
It won't get any more balanced than that.
What do you think the strongest horde racial is? The 2 second silence blood elves get?
That or an Orc, yeah.
2 second silence is pretty good, especially when used on a healer. Stopping them from healing will more or less always ensure a kill, and even if they are fake casting, you have another interrupt you can use to stop the actual cast.
How is that comparable to an extra trinket slot
At the expense of resilience, which is also needed, especially at this early part of the expansion.
or a heal that heals for 4% of your health every 3 seconds for 15 seconds? Assuming you have 100k health, which is rather suboptimal gear, that's 4k every 3 seconds. That's a lot of health.
Yeah. If you can't do just under 2k dps for 20 seconds, you deserve to lose. Do you believe Recuperate is overpowered as well?
If you crit 15k (not unreasonable in any way) then that negates three ticks of the heal, which is plenty, even more so when it only has five ticks to begin with. That is no more unbalanced than any self heal ability.
Horde Racials are most often used offensively, with the exception of Blood Elf, and then Alliance Racials are used defensively, with the exception of Worgen maybe.
Blizzard gave them there own racials because they want game play to be different.
Also, you have to consider, as I stated earlier, this has to be balanced around PvE as well. They need racials that are useful for that aspect of the game, and you have to admit, PvE > PvP in this game in terms of focus for Blizzard. They have always touted it as a PvE game with a thriving PvP environment, not the other way around.
Thank you for responding with actual arguments, instead of dissecting what I said and using an ad hominem style of arguing, a la most people in the PvP forum. I do appreciate it :D
Anyway, I was more talking about how the racials stack with class abilities.
That 20% heal from the draenei, coupled with the warrior self heals is just insane.
The 40% sprint can stack with druid run speed, so that they can go at 185% run speed, and then go at 200% run speed again, when they already have a passive 45% run speed. It's ridiculous.
Oh, and the sprint thing is actually usable in PvE, because the faster you get out of the fire, the faster you can DPS more.
The second trinket slot is at the expense of 300 resilience. That's around 3.2% damage reduction. Trading that for
Darkmoon
cards
is totally worth it IMO.
I wasn't saying that just the racials themselves are overpowered. I was saying that in conjuction with other class spells they will be. If everyone had just auto attack, and the racials, they would be more or less balanced.
Also, I don't mean to sound like a !@#$, but could you explain to me how having a free trinket racial on a 2 minute cooldown is less OP than having a 3 minute cooldown trinket for PvE?
I just think that racial needs to be completely scrapped and replaced, maybe with a passive 5% speed bonus and a 1% attack and cast speed increase; they could call it "Thinking on your feet."
Post by
Treskol
Thank you for responding with actual arguments, instead of dissecting what I said and using an ad hominem style of arguing, a la most people in the PvP forum. I do appreciate it :D
You're Welcome :)
I did read the rest of you're example, but I'll respond using only this quote;
Anyway, I was more talking about how the racials stack with class abilities.
This isn't Alliance specific though.
Troll with racial, Bloodlust and Slice and Dice up? Ouch.
An Orc with some trinkets and other damage improving buffs up? Boom.
Goblin with Sprint and Rocket Jump? Whoosh.
Blood Elf Rogue?
You are silenced. You are silenced. You are silenced. You are silenced.
Tauren Arms Warrior?
Can't do that whilst stunned. Can't do that whilst stunned. Can't do that whilst stunned.
Oh, and the sprint thing is actually usable in PvE, because the faster you get out of the fire, the faster you can DPS more.
Si, and I wasn't saying it was useless, but for PvE the haste is better, especially when most classes have escaping-fire moves. (Blink, Demonic Portal, Sprint, Charge etc)
The second trinket slot is at the expense of 300 resilience. That's around 3.2% damage reduction. Trading that for Darkmoon cardsis totally worth it IMO.
I didn't mean EMFH was useless because they lost the resilience, I meant that it didn't come freely, like there was no question which one you should have.
Also, I don't mean to sound like a !@#$, but could you explain to me how having a free trinket racial on a 2 minute cooldown is less OP than having a 3 minute cooldown trinket for PvE?
I don't quite understand the wording for this, but I'll give it a go.
The racial does the function of a PvP trinket, without giving the resilience.
The extra PvE trinket has to be chosen somewhat carefully, as the ICD on the trinkets clash.
The PvE trinket is better than the PvP trinket overall, and this is the point of the racial, but I agree with
I just think that racial needs to be completely scrapped and replaced, maybe with a passive 5% speed bonus and a 1% attack and cast speed increase; they could call it "Thinking on your feet."
but I want my perception back!
Post by
Dragonzero
Horde Racials are most often used offensively, with the exception of Blood Elf, and then Alliance Racials are used defensively, with the exception of Worgen maybe.
I'll show ya that alliance have more def then the horde.
Alliance
Human +
Every Man for Himself
= OP Defensively
Dwarf +
Stoneform
= Defensively
Gnome +
Escape Artist
= Defensively
Night Elves +
Shadowmeld
= Defensively
Draenei +
Gift of the Naaru
= Defensively
Worgen +
Darkflight
= Defensively for escape and Offensively for catch up closer
Horde
Orc +
Blood Fury
= Offensively
Troll +
Berserking
= Offensively
Undead +
Will of the Forsaken
= Defensively and
Canniblize
= Defensively to bring health up
Tauren +
War Stomp
= Defensively
Blood Elves +
Arcane Torrent
= Defensively to silence and Offensively to gain rage, enegry, focus and mana
Goblin +
Rocket Barrage
= Offensively and
Rocket Jump
= Defensively for escape and Offensively for catch up closer
So the most OP race is Human, because they can get the 2nd trinket to boost the dps and ignore the pvp trinket. I hope Blizz will change the Human racial and force them to use pvp trinket on the farther patch.
Post by
Treskol
I'll show ya that alliance have more def then the horde.
Yeah, that's what I said.
Saying that, a Tauren Arms Warrior will use War Stomp offensively as part of their stun lock
Post by
688014
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Post by
Pwntiff
I thought the AV battlefield proved it a long time ago.
Post by
250582
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
abcdefg
Just a note:
Every Man for Himself has been changed to a 3 minute cooldown from 2 minutes (I think it was 2), whereas pvp trinkets are 2 minute cooldowns.
For a while on the forums, people were saying that humans were going to have to obtain the pvp trinkets due to the nerf to EMfH, but I don't know if the consensus was that a 3 minute trink was ok or too long.
Post by
Deoxysprime
Every Man for Himself is returning to a 2 minute cooldown in the upcoming patch. Just saying, for the uninformed.
Post by
abcdefg
I guess blizzard's consensus was that it was too long :p
Post by
Pwntiff
I guess blizzard's consensus was that it was too long :p
It's had a rough history. If it's longer than the PvP trinket (which activates EMFH's CD), there's no point in the racial. If it's as short/shorter than the trinket, there's no point in a human having the trinket.
Post by
jubia
They have easy access to both mine and water works, without even needing to cross the river. Horde have to jump across the river just to get to waterworks, which takes longer, which means that they can get reinforcements between thier two bases a lot easier than we can ours.
We don't need to cross the river. There is a road just in front of the Mine flag that goes behind the open field and, near the waterworks, you can jump from one rock to the flag group without even touching the water.
I do that with my pally and get on the flag at the same time the alliance gets there.
And it's blatantly obvious too! Not to mention easy as hell to fix. They could just randomize where horde and alliance start.
Except for that jump, I don't see a problem, really.
The racial buffs are overpowered, as well. Picture this. Draenei arms warrior. He just killed a guy, so he can heal...what is it, 25? 30% of his health? Instantly, as soon as he gets in melee range of someone, which is easy considering all the gap closers they have (Not QQing, just stating a fact. I play a frost mage, so I don't mind much about warriors :P)
No so. The current Draenei racial is a fixed value and will be changed to 20% in the next patch. Also, it's not instantly, it ticks every 1 (or 1.5) sec and you can kill him between the ticks. I also play a holy draenei pally (my main is a belf pally) and Gift of Naaru is not that big deal atm.
Post by
321140
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