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The game is dying..slowly
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Post by
OverZealous
Is this thread still going?
People complained in Wrath of the Lich King, telling everyone how TBC was so much better.
People complain in Cataclysm, telling everyone that Wrath was so much better.
As such, people will complain after the next expansion is out, telling everyone that Cataclysm was
so
much better.
Give it a rest guys.
And don't even bring up Rift. It was the same with Warhammer, Age of Conan and it'll be the same with every over-hyped MMO in development. Some will continue to enjoy it, and the rest will go back to WoW.
Post by
533681
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
740688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nipah
It should be trivial coding to offer an option for LFD but JUST limited to your server. Such a group would make it fun to chat (compare raiding and progression), dish dirt on your "favorite" raid leader, recruit, etc. As is, I would say that less than 10% of my LFD groups have folks from my own server. Most just one. So the opportunity to MEET NEW PLAYERS just isn't there. Run dungeon; never seen again.
I'd never assume any coding is trivial unless I've worked with the code. That being said I would greatly enjoy this option even though it would mean longer queue times.
I will admit that the main reason I stopped doing PvP was the multi-realm BGs...
There was such satisfaction in zoning into WSG and seeing on the list, and knowing that it was going to be time for payback (Nature's Swiftness + Chain Lightning + Frost Shock + weapon swing + WF)... once it became just a random bunch of schmoes who were from who knows where, i became boring.
Post by
Cambo
It should be trivial coding to offer an option for LFD but JUST limited to your server. Such a group would make it fun to chat (compare raiding and progression), dish dirt on your "favorite" raid leader, recruit, etc. As is, I would say that less than 10% of my LFD groups have folks from my own server. Most just one. So the opportunity to MEET NEW PLAYERS just isn't there. Run dungeon; never seen again.
Blizzard have already thought about that. But I guess you haven't ever had a character on a
low-population
server?
Think about it.
Post by
Tya1
Until Cata I also always took the 'wow is dying' or 'wow-killer coming up' or 'x is coming out, this is the end of wow' with a grain of salt (or two). I still don't particulary think that Rift is going to 'kill' wow, or that the 'end' of wow is upon us.
But, I do see a difference (and have experienced it myself) in the people who leave and that does make me wonder where we are standing with the game.
Those that are leaving now are doing it more...quiet. Most people will claim there is nothing wrong with the game, in a way they still enjoy it, but they are just...done. In my guild, which has been raiding since vanilla, we are suddenly in a situation where we can't get a group together. People are not logging in anymore for the whole evening, but just to do a quick round of dailies, which leaves the guild rather barren.
I dare to bet that half of the raid groups on any given server are desperatly trying to recruit.
Somewhere in between raiding ICC for the better part of a year, doing another rat-race to be ready for raiding at 85, dealing with the changes to my class (again) and being told: great, you killed these bosses, lets do it over, only now standing on your head, with one hand tied behind your back, I lost my 'zing'.
wow on it's own is still a good game. Well worked out and I love the changes to the 1-60 areas. But after 6 years, I am starting to think that we passed the high point of the game.
Post by
pnkflffytutu
For the people that truly think wow has 12 million players your wrong many people multibox, I'm willing to bet that they include trial accounts that are never used and they also probably include banned accounts so that 12 million number is probably a lot lower
Post by
Cambo
For the people that truly think wow has 12 million players your wrong many people multibox, I'm willing to bet that they include trial accounts that are never used and they also probably include banned accounts so that 12 million number is probably a lot lower
Nope. They only include active subscribed accounts.
They do not include trials or banned accounts.
And players do multi-box, but not as many as you are claiming.
Blizzard have no need to exaggerate. They run the best gaming experience on the market.
Post by
pnkflffytutu
Proof they only use active accounts?
Post by
lonewarrior
It should be trivial coding to offer an option for LFD but JUST limited to your server. Such a group would make it fun to chat (compare raiding and progression), dish dirt on your "favorite" raid leader, recruit, etc. As is, I would say that less than 10% of my LFD groups have folks from my own server. Most just one. So the opportunity to MEET NEW PLAYERS just isn't there. Run dungeon; never seen again.
Blizzard have already thought about that. But I guess you haven't ever had a character on a
low-population
server?
Think about it.
My first toon was on a low pop server. I understand fully the principal behind the LFD, because I did see many valued members of my server transfer off. But that's just the point, it was a poor solution to a problem they allowed to happen by creating such imbalanced pop servers. Why did Mal'ganis have 32000+ and my server only 4500. Why weren't servers capped at 20000, why didn't they just merge some of the low/med pops and deal with minor inconvenience of a small number of players needing name changes. Offer up a free pet or mount to compensate.
It's the same deal with when they nerf classes. What the frick...don't they have techs testing these things out until they get it right. What's the point of the PTR if your not gleaning valuable info out of it. It's like back in the day when American auto companies would put out new model and then have a zillion recalls to repair what quality control didn't bother to look for. You don't build customer confidence this way.
This WoW forum kind of parallels some of the Flat screen tv forums. Check it out if you get the chance. Pick a thread on a model that has a bunch of pages. The first pages are all full of anticipation, followed by how great the picture is. Jump to the last few pages and you read about all the little complaints people are having with that model. Now these customers have a right to complain because they made a large investment.
WoW is the same way. The big pictures draws you, but then you begin to see some of the warts as you put in the time. As a customer you have a right to voice your complaint. We've invested money and time into this and made many friends, to say quit playing is not a fair response. I want to be a part of the input that can improve WoW.
PS. Just to mention another little wart. My latest toon maxxed out inscription, yet I have to buy my glyphs because Blizz doesn't allow me to make the specific glyphs my class needs right off the bat. The Northrend/book of GM are all random. What's the fricking point in that. I have a Priest and my last 12 glyphs have been for DK's, Paladins and Druids...etc. I max out a profession and I can't benefit from it :/
Is anyone paying attention or do they need all hands on deck to carry the monthly subscription money to the bank.
Peace.
Post by
HoleofArt
Those that are leaving now are doing it more...quiet. Most people will claim there is nothing wrong with the game, in a way they still enjoy it, but they are just...done.
Pretty much this. My guild fell apart because 8 of our 10 raiders who were long-time players just decided they were done with the game. I, myself, will be letting my own sub end after 3+ years, and it may be permanent. I just see a lot more of the raiders that have been around since BC calling it quits. Several top 100 major raiding guilds have broken up recently due to players just deciding they had enough.
Post by
xaratherus
Proof they only use active accounts?
In the United States, where Blizzard is based, there's a thing known as 'false advertising'. While you can twist numbers to make your ads reflect things in a more positive light, somewhere you must define how the numbers were calculated (even if it's in very fine print that you have to specifically request).
In the advertisements where Blizzard notes the number of 'active accounts', they must define exactly what 'active' and 'account' means. In this case, the definition in the ad is thus:
“World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees territories are defined along the same rules.”
So yes - this probably includes a large number of multi-boxing accounts, as well as accounts that are no longer being played actively but have not yet run out of paid time. But the number remains.
It's like back in the day when American auto companies would put out new model and then have a zillion recalls to repair what quality control didn't bother to look for. You don't build customer confidence this way.
"Back in the day"? This still happens, constantly. My roommate is on a mailing list that collects and disperses all recalls (full or partial) from every major car company that sells in the United States; he constantly gets recalls from every car company.
WoW is the same way. The big pictures draws you, but then you begin to see some of the warts as you put in the time. As a customer you have a right to voice your complaint. We've invested money and time into this and made many friends, to say quit playing is not a fair response. I want to be a part of the input that can improve WoW
for me
.
I corrected that for you.
What about the people who disagree with your 'improvements'? Have they necessarily invested any less time or money?
When someone tells you that you should quit playing, it's not an unfair statement. If you aren't enjoying something, regardless of the amount of time you've put into it, then it's frankly ridiculous to continue paying for it. If you joined a golf club with annual fees, played there for five years, made lots of friends - but then decided that golf bores you now, you don't keep paying the fees (unless you've got the surplus cash to do so); you move on to another hobby, and if possible, find ways to keep in touch with those friends outside the club.
What you're asking for something that, to my knowledge, has
never
been done in the gaming industry: For a company to keep a single game, without any major modifications to 'platform', fresh and exciting for every single one of the millions of players
for almost a decade
. Point me to another game out there that has kept anywhere near this many players consistently active for over half a decade. There isn't one.
Even 'classics' like Pac-Man, Mario Brothers, Myst, Team Fortress, Everquest - you might pick them up for nostalgia and replay them, and they might have a small core following who keep playing no matter what, but eventually the game fades and people move on.
Post by
lonewarrior
Those that are leaving now are doing it more...quiet. Most people will claim there is nothing wrong with the game, in a way they still enjoy it, but they are just...done.
Pretty much this. My guild fell apart because 8 of our 10 raiders who were long-time players just decided they were done with the game. I, myself, will be letting my own sub end after 3+ years, and it may be permanent. I just see a lot more of the raiders that have been around since BC calling it quits. Several top 100 major raiding guilds have broken up recently due to players just deciding they had enough.
This ten times over. I saw many bluecollar good players just quit. Those that walked away mid-Wrath around the time they negated progression, who then came back for Cata and were just disappointed in the overall feel and quit again. Like I said erosion from the bottom up.
When your person of business/stock market you look for those little tidbits of fact manipulation. Like a company saying "we added 10,000 new subscribers" but what they conveniently leave out is that 5,000 old subscribers left. A year ago it may have been 9000/2000 that left. So they may claim to be growing, but anyone who invest in stocks knows this is a skewed fact. The fact that Activision Blizzard stock price has remained almost unchanged from a year ago is a little read between the lines tidbit, in spite of their claims of popularity and growth.
PS. Those that say it's player burnout, I beg to differ. I know many RL people who have bowled/played softball/ in a league or play chess in a league for many more years then the average WoW player does this game and there is no burn out there. Hardly any of them have ever improved on their abilities so what keeps bringing them back. The comradely, the familiar frendship, the league community they are a part of. To many of the older WoW players, WoW is like our bowling Tues/Thurs night league. This is what WoW should build around. You don't try to add members to a bowling league by playing rap music and strobe lights and bringing in a bunch of loudmouth brats(aka Tradechat) without disenfranchising the established core.
Peace.
Post by
lonewarrior
lonewarrior said:
WoW is the same way. The big pictures draws you, but then you begin to see some of the warts as you put in the time. As a customer you have a right to voice your complaint. We've invested money and time into this and made many friends, to say quit playing is not a fair response. I want to be a part of the input that can improve WoW for me.
I corrected that for you.
What about the people who disagree with your 'improvements'? Have they necessarily invested any less time or money?
You didn't need to make that correction. If you summarize all my post you will see I've never put what I want above what I thought was better for the community at large. Some of the points I made in earlier posts were even detrimental to my type of progression style.
My views come from being a GM of a decent size casual raiding guild for over 3 years. My insight comes from correlating the expressed views of many players along with my own.
As for the other person who disagree with me, let them voice, I'll leave it to Blizz to put a value each opinion, it's all I can do.
Post by
lonewarrior
What you're asking for something that, to my knowledge, has never been done in the gaming industry: For a company to keep a single game, without any major modifications to 'platform', fresh and exciting for every single one of the millions of players for almost a decade. Point me to another game out there that has kept anywhere near this many players consistently active for over half a decade. There isn't one.
Which is my point in a convoluted way. Truthfully from WoW's beginning what really ever changed. Think about it for a second. Start playing WoW. level 1, you level to 2,3..etc. What changes up until 85. Nothing really. What's the difference in difficulty from doing Deadmines or Stockades with a bunch of normal geared teen leveled toons and doing Nexxus at level 70 or Grim Batol at level 85. It's the same repetitive mechanics over and over again. Raids..the same. The novelty wears off fairly quickly. So what is it that keep a person paying/playing long after their progression has grind to a crawl, which except for those in the elite guilds, represents the majority of WoW players.
I hazard to guess the community/guild.
Compare the popularity of WoW to let's say Guitar Hero. At it's pinnacle, millions played it. Now it has been discontinued. Why did this happen, because it was just a game. Why hasn't WoW suffered the same fate to date, because it's more then just a game, it's a community and that is what Blizz should have kept their focus on. What Blizz has done in my view from Mid-Wrath onwards is to turn WoW into just a game. Everything was pushed toward endgame, everything was pushed towards expediency, they wanted to make everyone feel elite with epics. I'm not sure they contemplated the rebound effects of such changes. They just saw more people playing. Great for them, but who were these new people, well their the same people who now clog up the LFD with horrid runs and smart ass remarks. Now Blizz has to perk tanks to get them to que...hmmm think they are seeing the rebound results now?
If and when Blizz makes changes to the game it should be with the intention of strengthening the community, not let's make something easy so more people will play. Do that and we will bring in the new customers by word of mouth just how I was brought in.
Not sure if I can explain my sentiments any clearer. I like this game because I liked the people who I play this game with. if I'm getting pushed out, I should at least put up a fight, don't you think?
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
ut still imo blizzard should be releasing new content faster
I'm going to guess you've never tried to write in code, it takes a while, especially when you got to find and get rid of any and all bugs you can and make sure the game's still playabale. There's been one of 2 times when Blizzard rushed a patch which they should probably have waited a week to release, which were buggy as hell and made the game almost unplayable until it was fixed.
Anyone who played Argent Tournament when it first came out would never even whisper the words 'rush content.'
Post by
xaratherus
So what is it that keep a person paying/playing long after their progression has grind to a crawl, which except for those in the elite guilds, represents the majority of WoW players.
Perhaps they aren't playing for end game still?
My roommates are members of the guild in which I'm an officer. However, they have no intention of raiding, nor do they really participate in guild events. They enjoy leveling characters and collecting the achievements they can get without raiding. They're still having a good time. Now, perhaps it's because they're a community of 2 - they generally don't play unless they're running around together? I'm not sure.
I'm sorry if my tone came across as cranky. I was tired when I posted, and well - look at it from the perspective of someone who still enjoys the game, doesn't see anything wrong with its current direction, and who sees this topic hashed and rehashed at least three times a week on the forums. It can make one a little . . . tetchy. I do try to understand the concerns of others, especially when they voice them rationally (as you have), but I guess I kind of look at it and go, "...okay? So what do you want to see changed?"
I came into the game in BC. I was an officer in a guild then that slowly fell apart. I took a break for a couple of months, then transferred to a co-worker's server to my current guild. My co-worker doesn't have time to play anymore because of a promotion, so it's pretty much the few friends that I've made on the server. Some of 'em have left; I've made new ones.
I guess the thing that sort of annoys me is when people complain about there being no community. Even back in BC trade chat was full of 'Anal ' and Chuck Norris jokes (at least on Windrunner). People were still frequently jerks when I pugged dungeons; it just took about three times as long to put the group together. The community is still there - it's just that Blizzard has made a greater push toward smaller, 'artificial' communities - find a guild, make friends, stick with it. Trying to build a 'community' out of the thousands of disparate players on a server can't work when the population booms; the nature of the beast - the general apathy and sarcasm inherent to many patrons of the Internet - won't let it.
Post by
etrin
It still comes down to cata. This has to be the one that I have talked to the most people and read the most post about an expansion that is just CRAP.
One person said chess or softball as a long time sport that people are still playing.
Well look at them compared to WOW. Lets see same number of pieces that do the same thing they did 1000 years ago.
Softball yep I still have a bat, ball a glove and 4 bases.
WOW would say NO in this expansion we don't need pawns, and the queen can't move and OH YEA the rook can move diagonal today and can't move at all tomorrow....they need a nerf.
wow and softball. WAIT this bat thing...I feel that it should be a pillow and it has to be thrown at the ball in this expansion...that will make it FUN. quote one moron.
And our players say there are just too many bases....lets try 3 this time.
And only 6 players sounds like a better idea.
That is wows problem either they don't know what changes are going to do or as I have said they want change just to say they are changing and its better this way.
MY GOD some of the people on these boards (and in game) would shout and cheer if the buzzard squad decided that all you can do on odd months is chat in town. ITS ORIGINAL, ITS NEW and we won't have to pay more to do it....GREAT IDEA GC
Post by
Adamsm
Dude, your opinions are your own, and you hang out with people who are like minded obviously....but seriously, and this is to you, and everyone else who feels the need to complain, moan, ^&*!@, and just plain whine about this.........Stop Paying Blizzard a Monthly Fee of 15 bucks. They are going to notice that a lot more then they'll notice any and all rants about it on a 3rd party website that isn't visited by the Blues of Blizzard.
Jesu Christo.
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