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Christianity - The Horse that Refuses to Die
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Post by
Monday
No. What I am attempting to say is that creating evil does not make one evil. He created evil to help mankind progress and rejoin Him.
Post by
nintendorichard
I don't usually participate in religious debates, but I just wonder, why would you not believe in God?
If there is no God, alright, cool. You die and nothing happens.
If there is a God, and you don't believe in him, then you don't go to Heaven. If there is a God and you believe in him, you go to Heaven.
Post by
ExDementia
He didn't create evil. Humans are naturally evil, and God just gave us free will.
If god created
everything
, and evil falls under the category of
everything
, then god created evil.
Also, didn't he create man in his own image? Wouldn't that make him naturally evil too?
I assume these things will be no because your gut tells you god is great, and god can do no wrong. If we were talking about anything else, you would see the logic in this argument because you are a reasonable person.
Go back and read Genisis, he gave us choice, we chose to let evil into the world.
Evil being an idea that he created.
No it was a choice, and it was neccisary for us to have free will, again this gos back to that circual reasoning debate.
Are you saying he didn't create evil? Or did? In order for him to be omnipotent, and for him to have had created everything, there cant be something he didn't create or have control over.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
(with the exception of Fundenism, apparently?)
Religious Affiliation: Mormonism (aka Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints)
Do your fucking research.
Saying that the same single God has always existed, but has simply been creating himself over and over throughout time is just retarded.
I have never once said this. Go back and read.
Suppose they told me. Suppose they told me I was the only one worthy of being their prophet.
Time to back that up with miracles then.
Post by
ExDementia
I don't usually participate in religious debates, but I just wonder, why would you not believe in God?
If there is no God, alright, cool. You die and nothing happens.
If there is a God, and you don't believe in him, then you don't go to Heaven. If there is a God and you believe in him, you go to Heaven.
I hate that argument. Basically you are saying that we should believe in god just in case he exists just so we can get eternal life.
What a crock of s*** that make morality then right? Do right by your fellow man just for the prize at the end?
Post by
Pwntiff
I don't usually participate in religious debates, but I just wonder, why would you not believe in God?
If there is no God, alright, cool. You die and nothing happens.
If there is a God, and you don't believe in him, then you don't go to Heaven. If there is a God and you believe in him, you go to Heaven.
Because the people who say God doesn't exist do so because they say using one logical line of reasoning or another, it doesn't make sense for him to.
As I said before, I don't care if he does or not.
Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
it was directed at my overall opinion of religious people
That pretty much sums it up right here. If you replaced "religious people" with say "black people" or "gay people" then a mod would shut you down regardless of what you said, generalisations are never good.
This entire thread was started with a post about somone trying to disprove christanity, not arguing its merits, just flat out attacking it. and then youa re acusing relgious people of forcing their beleifs on others.
Post by
Monday
(Of course, you may not believe Jesus even existed, but then you'd be the one believing in completely fictional things, as most historians agree that Jesus actually did exist, even if he wasn't the Son of God).
I personally do not believe Jesus ever existed, what are the reputable unbiased sources claiming he did exist?
Read this.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
(Of course, you may not believe Jesus even existed, but then you'd be the one believing in completely fictional things, as most historians agree that Jesus actually did exist, even if he wasn't the Son of God).
I personally do not believe Jesus ever existed, what are the reputable unbiased sources claiming he did exist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Post by
Monday
Funden, my comment wasn't directed at you, it was directed at my overall opinion of religious people: "I don't mind you until you start telling me to repent and change my ways over some aspect of my life that doesn't concern you."
Good. Now I'd wish everyone would stop acting like they are being high and mighty and hate this. Truth be told, the thread started with somebody trying to impose their beliefs on me, and you have the gall to actually say you hate it when Christians do this?
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Mormonism does not teach polytheism. If you believe there was another god who created the current god and an infinite progression both forwards and backwards then you are defying the standard beliefs of Mormonism. Hence, why I made up a religion name.
True and false at the same time. Mormonism teaches that there are other Gods, but that you should only worship Heavenly Father, as He was the one that created this earth, and Jesus, as He is God's son. Research first before telling me I'm living my religion incorrectly.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
570226
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Time to back that up with miracles then.
It was a miracle that they created the world.
It was a miracle that they contacted me.
It was a miracle that they allowed me to be born.
It was a miracle that they allowed themselves to be born into someones mind, and created as mythology in this world.
I'm done with you. You are creating a parody, a caricature, without any of the actual events that happened to help prove Jesus was the Christ.
In essence, you are trolling me. Have a good day.
Post by
Squishalot
People are perfectly allowed and able to like or prefer whatever they want. However, the general principles of certain things contradict this ability and impede others' ability to do the same. Murder, for instance. Just because you like killing people doesn't make killing people right, because you're removing their ability to decide things for themselves.
On a similar token, if you are a Christian, cool. However, if because of your Christian beliefs, you decide that anyone who isn't a Christian is wrong and is damned to eternity in Hell and should be "taught" the error of their ways at every opportunity, then you're wrong. Period. The same is true for any other religion or lack thereof. The website in the OP, for instance, is just completely wrong. It ignores as much observable evidence as simply believing in God does.
Also, arguing with circular logic based on an assumption that something that is not proven and cannot be proven is true is completely wrong, which is exactly what was happening a few posts ago.
Ok, I don't have time to read much into the rest of this thread, but I just want to say one thing.
Chaos, your argument is garbage. Let me explain:
However, if because of your Christian beliefs, you decide that anyone who isn't a Christian is wrong and is damned to eternity in Hell and should be "taught" the error of their ways at every opportunity, then you're wrong. Period.
What do you mean that they're wrong? Do you mean that they're factually wrong? Morally wrong? That it's socially unacceptable (even if not morally wrong)? How is their being wrong an objective fact that warrants a 'Period' at the end of that statement?
Let me give you another example:
However, if because of your moral beliefs, you decide that anyone who enjoys murdering is wrong and is damned to life in prison for indulging in their sinful ways and should be "taught" the error of their ways at every opportunity, then you're wrong. Period.
Note the similarities:
1) You believe that the murderer is wrong because of your personal
beliefs
.
2) You believe that the person who murders should be damned to prison / death penalty / etc.
3) You believe that the person who murders should be taught that murder is bad at every opportunity.
Is that wrong? The majority of the population would probably agree with those three points I just listed, but would then disagree with the conclusion, because it's not demonstrably wrong. Likewise, your statement about people being damned because of Christian beliefs is not demonstrably wrong.
I'm as agnostic as they come, and I'll happily argue the religious side against atheists, and the atheist side against religion (see debates with HSR). However, I will not sit by and watch other people (of any religious aspect) butcher logic with that sort of crap. If you're going to tell people that they're
wrong
(and that's a very strong term), you'd better be able to back it up, which you haven't in this instance.
Post by
Pwntiff
Funden, my comment wasn't directed at you, it was directed at my overall opinion of religious people: "I don't mind you until you start telling me to repent and change my ways over some aspect of my life that doesn't concern you."
Good. Now I'd wish everyone would stop acting like they are being high and mighty and hate this. Truth be told, the thread started with somebody trying to impose their beliefs on me, and you have the gall to actually say you hate it when Christians do this?
I'll admit that I didn't read anything before the post of Skreeran's I responded to, except for glancing at the first post when it was new and skimming other the posted site and deciding it was theological propaganda. I figured by the time I'd popped in, the discussion was, as it usually is by the 4th or 5th page, only mildly related to the first page.
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