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Warcraft Expanded Universe(Books, Comics and Mangas)*Updated with Illidan*
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Post by
Adamsm
War Crimes.
Enjoy or not, but there is a run down of the thing.
Post by
Rankkor
Before anything, I haven't read the book (As much as I want to, I'm unable to, it'll never be published on my country, and I can't afford to have it imported here) so all I know is the spoiler summary I read and posted a few weeks ago.
Having said that:
Hello massive plot device that is completely and utterly &*!@ing useless. This is the thing that shows the 'exact' moments in time that allows them to show the crimes of the past, and what the people were thinking when it sets up for certain memories. All of this was just scenes that were lifted word for freaking word out of the previous content; the Shattering, Twilight of the Aspects, Rise of the Horde, Tides of War, the Theramore comic summit, and quests from the game. Seriously, other then adding in reactions from the audience and the heroes, it was nothing but flash back after flash back after flash back....and it got old really fast.
This right here is what upsets me the most about the book. The trial covers most of it, and its completely useless. I was expecting those visions to be relevant to the matter at hand, but nope, most of them had absolutely nothing to do at all. A good example is the vision when Durotan orders the execution of the survivors in Telmor. What in heaven's name does that has to do with the trial of garrosh? it happens well over 40 years ago. Was garrosh even born back then?
There were a lot of things that have been inconclusive over the years that this war has gone, and I was expecting the visions to clarify those, like if the sunreavers really were behind the theft of the divine bell, who gave the order to send assassins against Thrall on the start of cataclysm, and so on.
Instead, they waste their time (and ours) by showing stuff we've seen a lot, often lifted word-for-word. I think that the only vision with a shred of relevance to the matter at hand was the one with saurfang on Warsong Hold.
We know this, and it took up maybe 2% of the book...and it was confusing as hell.
I think 2% is cutting it far too low. It covers a large part of the book. And I for one liked it, as it gave SOME characterization to Vereesa beyond "Gal-rage-a-lot" that she's been stuck with since Day of the Dragon.
Her raging over not being made the Accuser, her raging over Garrosh, her wangst with Vereesa, and her weird mood swings regarding her sister was badly written.
Why? Small correction, she didn't wanted to be the accuser, that position would be chosen by the alliance, she wanted to be the defender of garrosh, to ensure that he got the execution by doing as bad a job as she could. Her raging over garrosh........ Do I really need to explain why she hates him?
And her "Wangst" against Vereesa...... I'm not sure why are you using the word "Wangst". Put yourself on her shoes. As shown in the TBC questline, she does cares for her sisters, and has yearned to be with them for years. However, over time she has convinced herself that none from the world of the living will ever, EVER, care for her again. They all hate her, and thus she hates them too as a defense/coping mechanism.
It humanizes her as a character (something that is woefully lacking in garrosh, he's a caricature, nothing more) and shows that there's more behind her than what she shows us in the game. Then out nowhere, Vereesa comes along and says that they could be friends again, and there it is, she dares to hope that maybe, just maybe, things can go back to how they used to be, if ever so slightly. Only for BAMP turn out to be a false hope as her sister (from her point of view) simply turned her back to her.
You're honestly saying her reaction was poor?
The 'kill Vereesa so she'd be like me' thing was incredibly creepy to how strange it made her.
You are saying this as if somehow Sylvanas wasn't creepy already. The bondage/leather outfit, the totalitarian iron-clad grip on her subjects, the borderline cult-of-personality going on in the undercity, the tenures of brainwashing and human experimentation, and the mass slaving and mass slaughter of enemy forces didn't clued you in?
Her plot to make Vereesa undead was really unnerving and creepy, but that's completely in-character for who sylvanas is. She is looking for someone to empathize with, to identify with. And as long as her sister was alive, that wouldn't happen. Yes its crazy and illogical, but then again, Sylvanas is not entirely sane, is she?
The poison plot could have been left out completely and not changed a thing.
I disagree. We knew that the poison had to fail in some way because garrosh is still alive in WoD, but the poison plot would had made a tremendous change if it wasn't for the ending. If Vereesa had gone undead. It would had opened up a lot of doors for character development for sylvanas, open up a lot of controversy in the alliance, and spark off an interesting story on how this will play out. Instead, the status quo had to be preserved, and everyone went back to how they were, effectively making this subplot entirely pointless.
The other half of the buddy comedy with Sylvanas, she had three settings: Rage, Cry, and Retarded....seriously, she acted so idiotic throughout the book that it was painful.
=/ Come on man, you're acting as if all of that was something new. This is
Vereesa
we're talking about here. You should be used to her being like that by now. Angry, whiny and stupid have been her default settings in every single appearance she's had since day 1. This subplot was the first time they actually showed something different for a change, and it had me going while it lasted. Too bad they had to take a HUGE step back after making so many steps forward.
Zaela,
Shokia
, Thalen and Harrowmeiser(the goblin for the daily in the Fjord); gathered by Kairoz to free Garrosh. Just a few pages here and there, and then the finale. Honestly...their opening scenes sucked, but the finale was good, I can say that.
Why blizzard? why? are they really THAT determined to deny us a badass non-evil orc woman? Zaela, Shokia, even the Warmatron on blasted lands. If its an orc, and its female, she's either evil, or she's incredibly annoying.
Why? Shokia was absolutely badass on the jade forest U_U
Garrosh is at his hamiest just before he is sentenced, where he tells them he would do it all again for the purpose of the Horde.
That speech was pure scenery chewing at its highest peak, but I can't deny its absurdly good. Almost Bison-like good.
Post by
Adamsm
You're honestly saying her reaction was poor?Yes it was; the freak out was so over the top I couldn't take it seriously at all, especially since the Vereesa reason was so idiotic.
It would had opened up a lot of doors for character development for sylvanas, open up a lot of controversy in the alliance, and spark off an interesting story on how this will play out.Actually it wouldn't have, since at one point, Sylvanas talks to Vereesa about the pair of them leaving the Horde as well and striking off on their own....which again, was utterly useless.
And it was only about 2%; there was a lot more Jaina and Anduin things.
=/ Come on man, you're acting as if all of that was something new. This is Vereesa we're talking about here. You should be used to her being like that by now. Angry, whiny and stupid have been her default settings in every single appearance she's had since day 1. This subplot was the first time they actually showed something different for a change, and it had me going while it lasted. Too bad they had to take a HUGE step back after making so many steps forward.Actually..No; she wasn't whiny or stupid in Day/Night. She had a real character but it's vanished since she started appearing in Golden's work and I am tired of it. There is also no excuse for making her as stupid as they did in this book.
Like I said, it's a little better then Tides...but I still think this book is incredibly weak.
Post by
morginar
Also, to defeat the Alternate Me, you don't fight them, you make them see the Truth about themselves. Kalec and his insane Alternate was the dumbest; Insane Kalec is insane because Jaina pulled off the Orgrimmar genocide and the resulting war killed off everyone he loved. He actually says to our Kalec: Jaina died. You have her alive...she loves you right? She loves you! and then after Kalec applies logic, he vanishes. Baine makes his Alternate Me remember their father and he disappears. We never find out what happens with Raging Jaina or Blackmoore Thrall which is a pity. King Anduin is a coward who somehow still has Fearbreaker, which our Anduin takes and fights off against Human-Killing Vol'jin..and manages a few good hits but just as HK Vo'jin is going to kill him, King Anduin grows a pair and jumps on him....then dies. At that point, Chromie throws HK Vol'jin away.
That sounds derp that derp logic makes them vanish.
There goes the RP-plan for a chanse to face a alternative you. One born from a personal timeline and survives the chaos.
Thats just to Derp to use in RP.
Post by
Adamsm
Incredibly derped.
Post by
Skreeran
Honestly, I don't blame Golden any more than anyone else at Blizzard.
Seems like they're all just glad to be working.
Samwise Didier: Just glad to be working.
Christie Golden: Just glad to be working.
Chris Metzen: Really glad to be working.
I mean, it's like the writers for Spongebob. Yeah, they suck now, but because the IP is successful anyway they keep them around. The writers meanwhile don't really have a great shot at working anywhere else, so why not stay with the golden goose?
I mean, the overall quality of the whole universe is dropping year by year, but people will still play it because most people don't really care about the story. They just want their end-game PvE or PvP.
I think Ulduar was probably the high point for WoW lore, because after that you got the Crusader's Colosseum, which was dumb, Icecrown Citadel, which was a cool raid but ended on "There must always be a Lich King," then the horrible goat@#$% that was Cataclysm, followed by Mists, which had great quest design and terrible, terrible overarching lore.
Really I don't expect Warcraft to ever really live up to its glory days again. It's a product now, and as long as people will buy it, there's no reason to really improve it. Gotta hit those numbers. Make a reality show with motorcycles. Release a new microtransaction mount. Book another C-tier music group for Blizzcon.
That's where the money is going. Not into improving the game. Marketing is always more effective than actual product quality. That's why Call of Duty still sells, McDonalds is still the lead consumer of tomatoes in the entire world, and they're making another Transformers movie. A bland product with great marketing will beat a quality product that's trapped underground any day of the week.
So they pay Golden to churn out another book, and by now she's onto their scheme. Why should she put any effort into it if Blizzard doesn't care? Throw a manuscript together, collect a paycheck, get on with life. And then they can market it as a Bestseller, get as many sales as they can, and get some early hype for Warlords of Draenor, their next cash cow.
People think that WoW is gonna end with a final expansion where the Army of Light assembles and fights the Legion, but I promise you Activision Blizzard isn't going to kill their Golden Goose. They'll drive it right into the ground, just like
Call of Duty
.
Post by
Adamsm
And yet....Dawn of the Aspects and Shadows of the Horde were so very good; it's why I want them to give Golden a nice long vacation and start letting other writers do the job instead.
Post by
matheus314
Thanks Adamsm, I don't think I'd ever get the book in my hands to read, your explanation helped a lot.
Post by
Adamsm
De nada.
Post by
Enimi
For a player just now wanting to get into the world of lore, what book would be best for me to start with. I love reading, if someone could please just let me know of a good starting point, or maybe a small list in order of start to finish, it'd be truly appreciated.
Thanks so much. Happy reading
Post by
oneforthemoney
War of the Ancients
is something of the defacto beginning of Warcraft characters and their lore, though time travel is involved. I suggest
Rise of the Horde
as a good beginning point, as it takes you to the most relevant beginning, which is where the Horde is formed and prepares its invasion of Azeroth. Really, Adamsm's list is in order from lore first to last, but I still recommend
Rise of the Horde
as the beginning point. It's a decent read .
Post by
Adamsm
Aye, my list is in Lore chronological order. The first few chapters of War of the Ancients book one and the last few chapters of book 3 take place before the start of WoW but after the Third War/Frozen Throne with characters from Day of the Dragon, which was the first book of Warcraft that was published. If you want the over all story, you'll need to read them all up eventually; all of the books, the manga's and at least the first 14 issues of the monthly series comic.
I still need to go back though and add in synopsis for the other two graphic novels....course, I have to read them again to do so.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Or just browse wowpedia articles to understand the greater lore.
Post by
Atik
Or just browse wowpedia articles to understand the greater lore.
This is what I did, mostly because the only book I ever found was the Sundering (And it was pretty terrible)
I'll second Money's vote to start with Rise though. Save War of the Ancients for later, since it doesn't impact the overall story as much and deals with timey-wimey-things.
I personally learned the lore by a combination of reading quests, reading book summaries, checking wowpedia pages, and joining into discussions in our own General Lore Q&A thread.
Post by
Adamsm
I'd honestly say to read the books at some point...some of them you won't want to read more then once(such as War of the Ancients, Twilight of the Aspects, Tides of War, War Crimes) but others you'll want to read multiple times(the Last Guardian, Rise of the Horde, Lord of the Clans). But no matter what, I would suggest reading the Legends manga, since there are amazing stories in there....and I really wish that Blizzard would tap some of them to write books and stop being so focused on just two authors.
Post by
Skreeran
Warning: War of the Ancients is so dense and sluggish that I wasn't able to get through the first book, even after I buckled down and resolved to read it as a chore. Read it at your own peril.
I would also recommend reading Rise of the Horde and Lord of the Clans first, especially if you're a Horde fan. The Shattering is also a really good read.
I haven't read The Last Guardian, but that's supposed to be really good too.
Post by
yzq85
Honestly, I don't blame Golden any more than anyone else at Blizzard.
Seems like they're all just glad to be working.
Samwise Didier: Just glad to be working.
Christie Golden: Just glad to be working.
Chris Metzen: Really glad to be working.
I mean, it's like the writers for Spongebob. Yeah, they suck now, but because the IP is successful anyway they keep them around. The writers meanwhile don't really have a great shot at working anywhere else, so why not stay with the golden goose?
I mean, the overall quality of the whole universe is dropping year by year, but people will still play it because most people don't really care about the story. They just want their end-game PvE or PvP.
I think Ulduar was probably the high point for WoW lore, because after that you got the Crusader's Colosseum, which was dumb, Icecrown Citadel, which was a cool raid but ended on "There must always be a Lich King," then the horrible goat@#$% that was Cataclysm, followed by Mists, which had great quest design and terrible, terrible overarching lore.
Really I don't expect Warcraft to ever really live up to its glory days again. It's a product now, and as long as people will buy it, there's no reason to really improve it. Gotta hit those numbers. Make a reality show with motorcycles. Release a new microtransaction mount. Book another C-tier music group for Blizzcon.
That's where the money is going. Not into improving the game. Marketing is always more effective than actual product quality. That's why Call of Duty still sells, McDonalds is still the lead consumer of tomatoes in the entire world, and they're making another Transformers movie. A bland product with great marketing will beat a quality product that's trapped underground any day of the week.
So they pay Golden to churn out another book, and by now she's onto their scheme. Why should she put any effort into it if Blizzard doesn't care? Throw a manuscript together, collect a paycheck, get on with life. And then they can market it as a Bestseller, get as many sales as they can, and get some early hype for Warlords of Draenor, their next cash cow.
People think that WoW is gonna end with a final expansion where the Army of Light assembles and fights the Legion, but I promise you
Activision Blizzard isn't going to kill their Golden Goose
. They'll drive it right into the ground, just like
Call of Duty
.
I disagree. If anything, Activision Blizzard is making an example of WoW that no single franchise is a sacred cow to them. Heck, they are even trying to buy the makers of Candy Crush to expand the demographics.
Post by
Adamsm
And yet....Dawn of the Aspects and Shadows of the Horde were so very good; it's why I want them to give Golden a nice long vacation and start letting other writers do the job instead.
Dawn
was by Knaak.
I know it was; that was my point. Different writers make the books better. I enjoy Dawn of the Aspects so much more over the recent Golden works because the recent Golden books are horrible.
Post by
yzq85
And yet....Dawn of the Aspects and Shadows of the Horde were so very good; it's why I want them to give Golden a nice long vacation and start letting other writers do the job instead.
Dawn
was by Knaak.
I know it was; that was my point. Different writers make the books better. I enjoy Dawn of the Aspects so much more over the recent Golden works because the recent Golden books are horrible.
Yeah. It probably would have been better if the authors were cycled around, but they weren't.
Post by
Adamsm
It's up.
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