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Judge who beat daughter on tape not being charged
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Post by
Azazel
Hitting a kid can only cause bad things to happen. Simple as that.
what if you catch them shooting up? Or torturing the neighbors dog with a knife? Or making a pipe bomb?
Punish them verbally, take away their toys (probably too old for that, but you get the idea), ground them etc.
I'd probably turn them in to the authorities. That is actually illegal, you know.
I would probably talk to the owners of the dog/the authorities depending on how serious it is. To me it looks like the right thing to do.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Do you have kids?
Well I was mostly referring to the latter 2 cases. The first case I'd ground them and take away their source of income if it's coming from me.
Of course, it does depend on the age of the kids too.
Post by
Gone
Well the dog thing is a bit far, if that happens you wanna getbyour kids some help (and sleep in shifts). I just threw that in there to have 3 examples, 3 is such a nice rounded off number. As far as the drugs or the bomb go, no parent would ruin their kids life by calling the authorities. At worst they go to prison, at the very least they get a black mark on their record and get expelled from school.
I don't believe in beating children, and I don't have kids. But if I ever caught a child of mine doing serious drugs I would probably smack em a few times. I've seen in my family what happens from not nipping that ^&*! in the bud.
Post by
pezz
Guys like this are probably why even sensibly applied corporal punishment is so taboo now. Beating the !@#$ out of your disabled daughter in anger =/= spanking a child who is being extremely bad or putting himself in extreme danger at an age when children are simply far too young to listen to reason.
So when this guy starts going off about 'liberal parenting' like it gives him a license to abuse his children, it makes it harder to defend the merits of non-dangerous spanking as one tool a parent draws upon very infrequently.
Post by
Interest
Well the dog thing is a bit far, if that happens you wanna getbyour kids some help (and sleep in shifts). I just threw that in there to have 3 examples, 3 is such a nice rounded off number. As far as the drugs
or the bomb go
, no parent would ruin their kids life by calling the authorities. At worst they go to prison, at the very least they get a black mark on their record and get expelled from school.
I don't believe in beating children, and I don't have kids. But if I ever caught a child of mine doing serious drugs I would probably smack em a few times. I've seen in my family what happens from not nipping that shot in the bud.
Well it does depend on what they use the bomb for as well, but in the general sense, making a bomb is pretty...serious.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
@ Ryja, in regards to Corporal Punishment
Honestly, a child who is torturing a cat or making a pipe bomb has some serious psychological issues, and they need to be put into treatment, and locked up to do so. There is nothing that hitting a sociopath or a child who has rage control issues and revenge fantasies will do, except put you in their crosshairs. The emotional damage they have needs to be addressed- they're not going to suddenly be afraid to do such things because they're afraid of a spanking. And you're not doing them any favors by hiding it- it's going to destroy their lives and yours when, because they went untreated, they actually use the bomb, or move up from animals to people.
If you catch a child shooting-up, then the immediate thing is to make sure they have no access to the drugs or the people who give them the drugs, and to get them into some kind of treatment to deal with physical symptoms with withdrawal. There's nothing that hitting them is going to do except drive a further rift between you and making it harder for you to reach them.
Your line of reasoning seems to indicate that the worse thing a child does, the worse the punishment should be. That if it's something really awful, then you should hit them. I, however, believe that the reason we discipline our kids is to teach them how to behave, and help them develop the right ideals and morals for their lives. I'd prefer to find the most effective punishment to accomplish that, rather than the one that seems to be "harsh" enough to cover the crime.
In any case, once a child has hit the age of being able to reason effectively, you're much more likely to get the desired response by making the punishment correlate directly with what they did. If they download illegal computer games, take their computer away. If they threw a fit about their curfew, don't let them go out at all. If they stole something, embarrass them by making them go back to the store and apologize, and work out a way for them to repay the store. Hitting them does nothing to reinforce cause and effect, or to show them what the right way to be is.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
When I said making a bomb I didn't mean like to blownupbthe school with. I will admit I played with pyrodex and lighter fluid and $%^& when I was a kid, it's because I was stupid not violent. Lots of boys play with firecrackers and such in the woods when they are kids.
@ElhonnaDS
I wasn't trying to say at all that the worse a childs misdeed was the more harsh their punishment should be. I just meant that if my child is doing something that puts his life in danger like doing hard drugs or playing with explosives, I will make damn sure they never do it again, even if that means smacking some sense into them.
I also think that when children are very young and dont listen to or understand reason because of the young age, a tap on the behind (and no more than that) is sometimes needed, for their own safety.
As far as the drug thing gos btw, idk if any of you have ever dealt with an addict, but I have. And taking away their money and trying to controll who they spend time with does not work, especialy on older kids. Honestly hitting them probably won't work either, which is why if I have children i will do everything in my power to make sure they don't touch drugs in the first place.
Post by
gamerunknown
It's easy to say now since I don't plan to have any kids, but why do people assume that it is more loving to assault them than to hand them over to the authorities that would treat them justly? I wouldn't even do that to a dog that was mangy and not particularly friendly.
Besides, the weight of
the evidence
shows that corporal punishment has one immediate gratifying result: the negative behaviour desists. But it has longer reaching effects. If a parent is capable of envisioning the future, they wont beat their child.
Post by
MyTie
True, but the point is it's easy enough to counterargue that spanking children causes psychological issues, which means the person may:
a. Die (self inflicted)
b. Be not as productive otherwise due to these psychological issues. They will lack any sort of self-esteem.
Which in short, results in a backwards society of no progression whatsoever.
(in b4 MyTie posts some counterargument. I would LOVE to see him try to justify this video)
I am a parent. Have been for years. I have a 12 year old girl, and a 3 year old boy. I have had practice at applying a wide range of discipline. Most of the time, my discipline comes in the form of a long discussion about the importance of responsibility. However, on certain occasions, which are few and far between (especially for my daughter), I feel the need to apply corporal punishment. When I first feel the need to use corporal punishment, I send my daughter to her room. I then sit for a bit and think about what she did, and if there is another way of getting through to her. If my deliberations prove to be fruitless, I discuss the incident with my wife in private. We talk about her actions, her intent, what a deserving punishment is, and (most importantly) if corporal punishment would benefit her. If either one of us has a doubt, we don't do it. Then, if we are both in agreement, we sit down with the child, and explain what we are doing, and why, in a very kind and calm voice. Then, whichever parent was NOT involved in the incident (if it only involved one parent) will apply the corporal punishment. Every time we have used corporal punishment, there has been ample opportunity for the child to correct the behavior on their own, or even, to discuss the mistake, and provide alternative punishment ideas. When the corporal punishment is applied, it is done in private, with only one parent, with a spank applied to the butt with an open hand, while the butt is covered with whatever clothing the child is wearing.
In the most desperate situation, when nothing else has worked, corporal punishment DOES work, and it ends in the child understanding direction and discipline. Every time I have used it, the child has resulted in a better attitude, obedient demeanor, and generally happier. The child trusts us more, because we are consistent and patient. Anyone who argues that corporal punishment always ends in negative results doesn't know what they are talking about.
On the other hand, it could be very easy to apply corporal punishment in a negative way. If a parent is unable to do it properly, they shouldn't use corporal punishment. It takes a lot of patience. When used properly, spanking is more time consuming and more work than any other punishment. When used improperly, spanking is quick, easy, vengance gratifying, destructive, and wrong. Any parent that beats their kid, deserves to go to jail, and lose custody of all their kids, as well as be excluded from all government jobs and jobs that involve children. It should carry the harshest punishment.
Beatings and proper corporal punishment aren't the same thing, or even resemble each other. Some guy beating his kid is not out of love. I'm firm with my kids. I'm patient. I'm loving. They do some things that get me angry. I get really mad at them. In my most angry moment, that moment when I am seeing red, I would never hit my kid. They could burn the house down, and I wouldn't hurt them. I couldn't even imagine hurting your own kid. The thought is contemptible.
Post by
Azazel
I still do not believe that a kid gets happy by getting beaten, or as you put it, get "corporal punishment". Violence breeds Violence.
Post by
MyTie
I still do not believe that a kid gets happy by getting beaten, or as you put it, get "corporal punishment". Violence breeds Violence.
I understand my earlier post was hard to grasp because there were a lot of words, so let me break it down to bite sized chunks for you:
1) Undisciplined children are unhappy kids.
2) "Corporal Punishment" is not "beating". They aren't the same thing.
3) "Corporal Punishment" isn't "violent" if done correctly.
Post by
Interest
tl;dr corporal punishment is okay, using (harsher) physical punishment against the kid isn't.
I still do not believe that a kid gets happy by getting beaten, or as you put it, get "corporal punishment". Violence breeds Violence.
I understand my earlier post was hard to grasp because there were a lot of words, so let me break it down to bite sized chunks for you:
1) Undisciplined children are unhappy kids.
2) "Corporal Punishment" is not "beating". They aren't the same thing.
3) "Corporal Punishment" isn't "violent" if done correctly.
Well that's good to hear =). I'm just against anything beyondWhen the corporal punishment is applied, it is done in private, with only one parent, with a spank applied to the butt with an open hand, while the butt is covered with whatever clothing the child is wearing.
^ This is fine, imo. When I'm talking spanking, I mean with
a belt or a stick
or something. With your bare hand is like...a tap in comparison.
Post by
Jubilee
My parents never once touched me with any sort of physical punishment, and I would like to think I turned out all right. While I can understand how some people might responded better, I still find the idea of any parent do it to any degree cringing.
Post by
Azazel
I still do not believe that a kid gets happy by getting beaten, or as you put it, get "corporal punishment". Violence breeds Violence.
3) "Corporal Punishment" isn't "violent" if done correctly.
I would have to disagree on number 3, since Violence is usually violent..
I understand my earlier post was hard to grasp because there were a lot of words, so let me break it down to bite sized chunks for you You don't have to be that spiteful just because we have different opinions on a subject, which I assume you were with that wording.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I'm not going to say that I think corporal punishment is necessarily abusive in all cases. A swat on the behind is certainly not the same thing as what happened in the video. What I will say, though, is that I haven't seen a case where it was more effective than other punishments in correcting behavior.
Also, knowing which of my friends and family did and did not get seriously hit as kids, and seeing what choices they made as adults, I have noticed a trend towards picking emotionally and/or physically abusive relationship partners, making snap decisions and not taking into account long-term results of their actions. If they're used to someone hitting them and telling them they love them, it's less of a leap to allow a spouse to do it. When they get brought up in such a way that they are trained to think in terms of immediate physical needs and safety, rather than weighing long term pros and cons of actions or having it impressed upon them that they're harming other people, then when the immediate physical threat is removed they are much more likely to not adhere to the rules and engage in destructive behavior. Developing reactions to avoid pain is not the same thing as understanding why some things are right and wrong, or are good or bad for you.
I'm not going to say a tap on the behind is the same as being beat up, or that people who occasionally use corporal punishment along with actually reasoning and explaining things to their kids, and using other forms of punishment aren't being effective parents. I just know that, in most cases, I've personally seen more harm than good done with corporal punishment.
@MyTie Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean that they can't read. They may just hold a different opinion. You may consider corporal punishment to be non-violent, but it's only punishment if it causes physical pain to the child. To many people, that would be a measure of violence.
Post by
MyTie
I still do not believe that a kid gets happy by getting beaten.
You don't have to be that spiteful just because we have different opinions.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Post by
Azazel
I still do not believe that a kid gets happy by getting beaten.
You don't have to be that spiteful just because we have different opinions.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I don't see how my post was spiteful at all. I just stated my opinion, without trying to sound arrogant or all-knowing.
Post by
MyTie
@MyTie Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean that they can't read. They may just hold a different opinion. You may consider corporal punishment to be non-violent, but it's only punishment if it causes physical pain to the child. To many people, that would be a measure of violence.
I assumed he was unable to read because he extrapolated "kids get happy from being beaten" from my post.
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