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Multi Boxing in PvP.
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Post by
718653
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33229
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Post by
518492
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255458
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Post by
Nathanyal
Well, that's an awful lot of hate.
I agree. They post no reason as to why they hate them so it is probably best to ignore them.
Post by
518492
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Post by
b4xx
Well, that's an awful lot of hate.
I agree. They post no reason as to why they hate them so it is probably best to ignore them.
They probably get steamrolled by boxers, so they unleash their fury on forums.
Well, that's an awful lot of hate.
I agree. They post no reason as to why they hate them so it is probably best to ignore them.
No reason as to why people hate them?
Ignorance is the obvious first reason, then.
1) Multi-boxers ruin dungeons and battlegrounds for other people.
They take up spaces that actual, real people could be filling. It takes away others' ability to enjoy the game. In a BG, it more ofthen than not hinders the team depending on what kind of BG it is. But to block out other players ability to join a BG or Dungeon so you can bring your fakes is a major reason they suck ass.
2) Multi-boxers are NOT like facing a premade BG.
A very common response, usually by idiots. A premade team is comprised of all human players, working together to try and accomplish a goal. A multi-boxer is someone who fills multiple spots by him or herself, and then spams a spell or two (usually). That is not team work, that a selfish player being stupid.
3) They are legally accepted by Blizzard
Cool. Blizzard won't reject easy money. They won't ever say why, but its quite obvious why they have continued to allow it. Alcohol is a legal product, and Marijuana isn't. One of these are far more destructive than the other, but why one is legal and the other isn't is just politics. If Blizzard thinks its ok, then it "must be" an ok thing, right?
4) A multi-boxer has never defended their point
Anytime there is a debate, argument, discussion, etc. between Multi-boxers and anti-Boxers, the Multi-boxers defend their point by breaking down the argument word by word, never once defending their stance on it. They take shots at words like "lul u clearly don't know what the word illegal means" or "I multi-box, not multi-bot, differences noobs". It shows that they don't have one, except to be a scum sucking slug. Why is this an issue?
Because there is no good reason to multi-box.
Ignorance? - BS, a boxer isn't any more ignorant than a casual derp in a bg.
1) If you take the numbers of multi-boxers versus the normal people doing bgs or dungeons, you'll see that the spaces boxers take is abysmal.
2) Indeed. But selfish or not, if one wants to bg with multiple chars, one should be allowed to do so. Also premade > boxer.
3) Nothing wrong with that. They have no problem with boxing, and so doesn't the majority of players, so why restrict it?
Smoke weed everyday?
4) That's the common policy of arguing, which was developed in ancient Greece (soz, don't know the correct term for that :P )
I'll give you
two
reasons for multi-boxing; it's fun and brings some change to the old mechanics. My friend, for example, who has all classes at 85, and has multiple toons at ~2.4k, enjoys multi-boxing in bgs. He has his two mains on one account, and the rest on different ones. Sure it eats money, but he's got a decently well-paying job, so he doesn't mind.
So there you go, a greek-stylish argument downing :P
Post by
518492
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Post by
Nathanyal
They're not "fake", they're accounts. There is no difference between 5 players getting into a BG over you and 5 multiboxers getting into the BG over you except that the one is controlled by 1 person.
Multiboxing does not grief others in anyway, shape or form. You just want to make an excuse for it so you can seem in the right, but the fact of the matter is you're not. It has been said numerous times that multiboxing is fine. Go back and read the other posts about it and you can see how it is. Multiboxing does take some skill with both computers and wow to get it to work properly. You have to set up macros for both the game and on your computer to run them.
If you haven't noticed there are millions of players playing WoW. There is only about a handful that actually multiobox. The only thing that multiboxing hurts is the person that gets ganged up by them. But that is their own fault for thinking they can take on 5 players on their own, regardless of them being 5 individuals or 1 person multiboxing.
One thing though, who are you to speak for the majority of players? I highly doubt you even know a million players much less the majority of the entire subscribers in the game.
I'm not going to bother to make any more replies. The first 2 pages have plenty of reasons why multiboxing is fine, if you don't want to read them then that is your own fault.
Post by
518492
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Post by
DavidIsaak
It strikes me as odd when all the "anti-box" people in their ragings claim that the boxers have no arguments to support them right after declaring that they are just wrong by default. The irony.
So multiboxers ruin your fun? Bad players ruin my fun, should blizz ban them?
Multiboxers are inferior to human players in every way except one. They are all on the same page. So the fault is really yours for not being coordinated.
Just grab five people, get them on teamspeak or skype or such. Point at whatever looks at you funny and shout "KEEEEL!". Then call blizz and ask them to ban you because you are obviously cheating.
Post by
518492
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255458
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225109
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Post by
DavidIsaak
Let's get to work.
I guess you don't know simple math. 5 players = 5 players in a BG. 1 player + 4 multiboxing fakes = 1 player in a BG. This means 4 "real" players get bumped aside for one person. This causes alot of issues. And to think this isn't the reality is being naive, and borderline stupid.
First of all, cut the insults. They are not needed and they are not wanted. If you can't keep a civil tone then get out until you have cooled off. Secondly, as far as I know there isn't a shortage of battlegrounds. No one gets shafted because a multiboxer is on the lose. Those 4 "real players" get to join in battlegrounds just fine like everyone else.
Griefing refers to the act of a player ruining the gaming experience of another player on purpose. This is what multiboxing does when done within a BG or a RDF. It ruins the gaming experience for anyone on the same team as the boxer. This should be grounds for a ban. You have no countered my argument, in fact, you only lend credit to another point I made - BOXERS DONT HAVE A REASON FOR IT. They just do it. And usually at the expense of other players, both intentionally and unintentionally.
They don't multibox to ruin the fun for anyone, they do it for their own amusement. Maybe the tears of their enemies comforts them at night but that is besides the point. And hell, some of them probably do it to help their own team. How you can claim that they don't have a reason to multibox is simply beyond me. No one does anything without a reason, no matter what it may be.
I have not made an exscuse. I have built my argument, and have been defending it. In fact, it is people defending boxers who make exscuses for it so it can seem right in their eyes. They feel "right" because...
It is good that you are willing to defend your argument. If you don't mean it don't say it is what I say. But don't demean other peoples arguments by calling it excuses.
Blizzard says it is fine, and this is something I also have taken offense too. I built my case why Multiboxing IS NOT FINE based on their guidelines of what is considered griefing. Blizzard has contradicted themselves, and they have never given a solid ounce of evidence as to why multiboxing should be considered "legal" inside a BG or a RDF. Rereading the same crap stories like you just wrote to me is why alot of this mumbo jumbo gets pushed aside.
It's because you are interpreting their guidelines on the assumption that multiboxing is only used to grief, which it is not. If it ruins your fun then too bad. But that is just a side effect from them trying to enjoy themselves, no one is out to get you. The "not giving a solid ounce of evidence" is not a fair statement because they don't consider it an issue so they haven't tried to make any. I doubt you would even consider that "evidence" to be valid no matter what anyway.
Bottom line; it is not up to you to make the guidelines so you can't invalidate them based on your opinions.
There is billions of people who live in the world, but only a few of them actually murder anybody intentionally. Should we make murder legal based on this assumption?
Who is getting murdered? Besides your team. Murdering is illegal because it is a really bad thing. Multiboxing is fine so it doesn't matter that a few people do it. It's a nice argument but you're addressing the number of people involved and not the issue itself so it doesn't work.
You never addressed what I wrote, so I suggest you go back and reread some of the older posts to see why this point you are trying so badly to make is void. To say its someone's fault that they are playing in a dungeon with someone multiboxing is stupid. To say the only people complaining are those who deal with multiboxers is also a stupid argument. In essence, this one situation is a drop in the bucket of the overall problem multiboxing creates.
Now you are only reversing his argument which doesn't work. Most of the older posts are supporting his idea so checking them again won't "void" anything.
Why is multiboxin in a dungeon bad? If he performs well then there is no issue. Multiboxers in dungeons likely perform better that most of the random people you might encounter there anyways.
Why would someone complain if they aren't dealing with the multiboxers? How is this a stupid question?
It's not a drop in the bucket. It is the entire bucket. How many other situations can you list where multiboxers are an issue?
Awesome point. But what if I told you I do know the majority of players. I know at least 1.5 million players. This argument holds as much water as ones you are using against me.
No you do not. It is not possible for any human to "know" much more than even a hundred people. If you only met those people for five minutes per person you would have to hang out with them for 7.1 years non stop before you have met them all. If you're gonna call out peoples arguments at least try to make sense.
Bottomline is, you have failed to address any of my points. If nothing else, I feel even better about my argument now that I have seen what the opposition has to counter this with.
The only reason you aren't considering the opposition valid is because you refuse to listen to it. You are the one not addressing the points made. All I see is a person with his fingers in his ears shouting "Lalala lalala I'm right you're wrong lalala!".
Post by
DavidIsaak
No matter how people may defend it, multi-boxers are, more cases than not, a nuisance in a group play. If you are highly skillful and are able to pull the most out of multi-boxing, good for you and the group. But it still fits in the category of where end justifies the mean.
Either I've never seen a multi-boxer in BG or I've never noticed them, whether because they were good or because they were un-noticably bad. But I've seen multi-boxers in RDF and I know some guildies of mine multi-boxed with a RAF account.
Basically, in a group play, what multi-boxers do is, exploit, or take advantage of other people's time and service. Again, if you are highly skillful in multi-boxing, good for everyone. But it still doesn't mean multi-boxing is ok ok.
Saying multi-boxing is ok is almost the same as saying enchanters can bid on every green and blue items because they need them to lvl their enchanting. Or, saying people who don't loot mob's corpse which results in skinners not being able to skin, selfish (there was a thread about this couple of months ago I believe).
The thing is, those mob's corpse or green, blue items are not skinners or enchanters to claim because it was the result of a group play; they don't have right to sabotage in between. Just like multi-boxers don't have right to sabotage the enjoyment, or the efficiency, of the group.
edit: just mentioning that, I occasionally multi-box also with my brother's account. just not in a group play.
Finally! A sensible post with proper arguments. Not that I agree, but +1 internet to you for making an effort.
Now for your first point, they may very well be a nuisance. I don't personally feel this way thou but I can't speak for others on it. The term "the ends justify the means" is a thesis often used to justify what we consider "bad" actions. But it does not inherently indicate that something is bad so I don't think it matters much here.
I don't really get how they exploit other peoples time and services, that is true for every player is it not? Although the word to be used here is utalise and not exploit. They provide their services to the group be it healing, tanking or dps'ing. For them to exploit others would mean that they aren't contributing which would classify them as afk'ers and nothing else.
And enchanters
can
roll on everything. Just because the wow community generally considers it to be wrong doesn't make it a rule. If they are allowed by the game to do so then they are free to do so. They are breaking the rules of society but not the rules of the game, which are what matters here.
Or, saying people who don't loot mob's corpse which results in skinners not being able to skin, selfish
Yes, it is selfish? I don't really get what point you are trying to make here, you haven't written it very clearly. They look out for themselves only and ignore the needs of others, which is what selfishness is. It's however not wrong.
Also, who is sabotaging? Sabotage indicates intent to do so. Which is not present here. Multiboxers are playing to win, the aren't playing to sabotage, if that were the case they would try to make their own team lose and I have not heard of such a case.
Would love love for you to clarify the last parts of your post.
Post by
518492
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255458
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Post by
DavidIsaak
To be honest i were not ranting and i can not see how i dodged every bullet when i responded to every part of your post one quote at a time. What kind of response do you want?
Yes they do. People had to be chosen for a BG, and those people get skipped to make room for a fraud with a band of fakes. Just because it doesn't impact the queue times that much, it doesn't override the fact that people get displaced for zombie fakes. Those BGs that now have the fakes are ruined for those within it.
They aren't fakes or zombies(lol), they are accounts. Just like everyone else.
I have not heard of anyone getting the message "sorry, you weren't picked to play a bg" so how they get skipped is beyond me. Everybody who queues gets to play. You can not deny this.
Multiboxing in RDF is griefing. It ruins other players' enjoyment of the dungeon. Not once have I ever seen a RDF group get assembled with a multiboxer and saw "YAY MULTIBOXERS IM SO EXCITED", it has always been met with immediate group drops from the real players. It doesn't matter what good or not they contribute, but say for example, if they have the ability to need roll on items and get 3 chances at it, then thats abusing the system and ruining other people's enjoyment. AKA, griefing.
Multiboxing make not be used to "grief" others intentionally, but as I wrote previously, unintentional griefing occurs by forcing others to deal with their decision to join a RDF. Also, it griefs the BG team they are on when their useless fakes show up. Griefing is ruining others ability to enjoy the game, and therefore, they deserve to be labeled as such no matter what.
Griefing = intentionally ruining someones experience. How can you do this unintentionally? And now you call them useless fakes when at first they were unfair. Make up your mind.
And how do they get 3 rolls? They get one roll per character, just like everybody else. Hell, they would need three times as much loot as a normal player so what are you complaining about?
And I admit that no one says "YAY MULTIBOXERS IM SO EXCITED" but you could take out the word multiboxers in that sentence and replace it with anything and it would still be true. And just because people leave instantly doesn't prove the m-boxers are bad. It only proves that people are not willing to give something a chance. More people complain about low dps when people are doing appropriate dps for the content they are doing than people complain about multiboxing. That doesn't make those complaints valid.
A petty counterpoint. In fact, the entire section is petty. Why is multiboxing in dungeons bad? Then you say multiboxers could do better. This is a flawed argument, and a major issue I have with people who decide to use it as a defense. I don't care what a multiboxer provides, if they are using fakes to take the place of other people - they should be banned on the grounds of griefing. Great guilds use exploits and get caught cheating, so they get punished - it doesn't matter if they are gods at the game or not.
Please explain how it is flawed. How are they taking places from people if those people have places in RFD anyway? How can people lose their spots if they have their spots?
Yes guilds that get caught cheating gets punished, that is because they cheat. M-boxers don't cheat so they don't get punished. They enter the dungeon and do their job just like anyone else.
Clearly my sarcasm was missed. I was simply laughing at his assumption that I don't know the millions of people who play the game by making the assumption back that he thinks.... oh nevermind, not worth my time to finish this response.
Yes the sarcasm was missed, most people have an actual point when they use it. Yes he assumed you don't know millions of people because you don't. When he said that you don't have the right to speak on behalf of the millions of other people you reply by saying that he can't prove how many people you actually know. How does this deny his point?
It hinders other people's enjoyment of the game. It provides nothing but a problem for those who just want to play the game normally.
This is just not true. I don't care either way for example. You say that this affects everyone negatively, then why are people arguing against you? Where are all these thousands of outraged people who suddenly find no enjoyment in the game anymore? I have played world of warcraft almost every day for at least 4 years, probably more and I have never seen more than a few people have a problem with multiboxers. To be honest I have seen more people in battlegrounds having fun with and against the multiboxers than the other way around.
The only problem I have with your opinions is that they are just not true.
Edit: To clarify; yes you and many others really think that multiboxing is wrong. But most people just do not feel this way yet you claim that it ruins the game for everyone, that is my issue.
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588688
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