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Vote-to-delete and reputation: should they be deleted?
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Post by
asakawa
On the subject of jokes, people really aren't cheating the system to get the jokey comments as highly rated as they are. If a joke has a +100 rating then it's because 100 people found it funny and clicked.
I totally get that when you're looking for solid info sometimes jokes are just annoying (and in those cases I suggest you down-rate them) but I think most of them get uprated when someone is looking for some info and reads something that makes them laugh out loud. These are usually short comments so people can read them quickly without getting too sidetracked but it also snowballs - once a joke gets a couple of up-rates then it's more visible so more people read it and more people find it funny and give it an up-rate etc.
Personally, I quite like them overall. Some are more funny than others of course but humour is very subjective. The alternatives people have come up with are things like adding flags for funny vs. informative comments but the problem is that nobody goes looking for jokes, they make people laugh because they're there for info but something made them chuckle - so separating them would be the same as deleting them.
My view is that we can let the rating system decide if they should be there or not.
I really like your idea about guide reputation. As a way to encourage people to make quality guides and continue to update them - also, of course, encouraging people to make great content for the site - I think it's a very good idea indeed.
I'm also in support of no negative rep (from automated sources).
Post by
Ashelia
I think a lot of the joke comments are legit--I would almost venture all of them. If you make your buddies upvote, we notice. We actually had to recently ban a user who we really liked because he had dozens of socks just to upvote his own comments. So I'd really, really advise that people A) don't do that and B) only post humor comments if they will be funny ;)
Post by
SpiffyJr
Hey everyone,
Just a quick update to let you know that this is my primary focus and, while still a nublet in training, I plan to have something quickly!
Here's a list of changes being implemented that Ashelia and I discussed:
Comments at -4 or or lower will appear at the end of the list and will be collapsed by default.
Comments now start at one reputation. All comments will be upvoted by one to account for this change.
Moderator warnings will result in a -150 reputation.
Moderator suspensions will result in a -250 reputation.
Instead of "Vote to Delete" there will be a "Flag as out of date" button that, after xxx user clicks, will put a comment into a moderation queue. Out of date comments will be listed after positive comments and before negative comments. These will be marked as "Archived" for historical purposes.
Deleted comments will show below negative comments.
Reporting for "Out of Date" will be removed.
Downvotes no longer remove reputation.
There will be three new achievements tied to flagging out of date comments where you can earn points for having a moderator react on comments you have flagged.
Thanks again for the feedback.(##RESPBREAK##)2##DELIM##SpiffyJr##DELIM##
Post by
baradiel
Good Luck SpiffyJr and Ashelia, i wish the best for ya'll :)
Post by
asakawa
Can't wait for these changes to go through.
One (very minor) question I was wondering (just out of interest); why change all comments to +1? Why not make -5 the threshold and leave comments starting at 0?(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Ashelia
Can't wait for these changes to go through.
One (very minor) question I was wondering (just out of interest); why change all comments to +1? Why not make -5 the threshold and leave comments starting at 0?
A lot of people--myself included--see 0 as ... negative. It's hard to explain, but when you use sites like Reddit, you're used to just by default being at 1. So sometimes we get complaints that they got downvotes, and low and behold, they're. just. at. 0.
So I figured that was something we needlessly changed in the first place; it was such a minor tweak for no good reason that there is no harm in reverting it.
Post by
asakawa
Ah okay, cool. Makes sense.
Post by
rahael
i like the proposed changes a lot, but i'd still also like to see the implementation of an "in danger" profile tab for each user that includes comments with negative ratings or with some fraction of the X number of flag as outdated requests. it gives people who are really interested in keeping the database current a chance to fix or adjust their comment in some way before the system automatically takes care of things. in the case of a number of long-time users (not me!), they have hundreds of comments and there's no way for them to really keep track of anything except for their most recent 200 comments.
Post by
Nulgar
Comments now start at one reputation. All comments will be upvoted by one to account for this change.Sooo, back to how it was before the overhaul? I hope you account for that older comments already have a +1 vote from their author, so no need to upvote every single comment by 1 indiscriminately :P
Post by
Nooska
Comments now start at one reputation. All comments will be upvoted by one to account for this change.Sooo, back to how it was before the overhaul? I hope you account for that older comments already have a +1 vote from their author, so no need to upvote every single comment by 1 indiscriminately :P
Didn't they all get a -1 when it was changed? I know several of my comments went from 1 to 0 (or rather, down a rating) when it was implemented - without any notice in the rep log that there was downvotes.
Post by
Ashelia
Comments now start at one reputation. All comments will be upvoted by one to account for this change.Sooo, back to how it was before the overhaul? I hope you account for that older comments already have a +1 vote from their author, so no need to upvote every single comment by 1 indiscriminately :P
Didn't they all get a -1 when it was changed? I know several of my comments went from 1 to 0 (or rather, down a rating) when it was implemented - without any notice in the rep log that there was downvotes.
Yes, they all got a -1, so fixing it is just adding +1.
Post by
Adamsm
Like the changes; can't wait for them to go through.
Post by
SpiffyJr
Like the changes; can't wait for them to go through.
Going as fast as I can, promise!
Post by
AnrDaemon
A lot of people--myself included--see 0 as ... negative. It's hard to explain, but when you use sites like Reddit, you're used to just by default being at 1. So sometimes we get complaints that they got downvotes, and low and behold, they're. just. at. 0.
So I figured that was something we needlessly changed in the first place; it was such a minor tweak for no good reason that there is no harm in reverting it.
That could be resolved spending extra points from
http://www.wowhead.com/privilege=5
to the initial comment score.
(Wonder how many people here have over 5k rep? What'd happen when that privilege would give one more point per each 2500 rep?)
BTW, i don't see, why "not rated" is bad? It's just not rated, how can it be good, or bad? On another hand, just handing out +1 to every new comment isn't easy from database management standpoint.
Post by
Nulgar
Sooo, back to how it was before the overhaul? I hope you account for that older comments already have a +1 vote from their author, so no need to upvote every single comment by 1 indiscriminately :P
Didn't they all get a -1 when it was changed? I know several of my comments went from 1 to 0 (or rather, down a rating) when it was implemented - without any notice in the rep log that there was downvotes.
Nope, those comments that were created before the overhaul retained the +1 from their author - at least as far as I can tell from my own older comments that I saw since then, the upvote arrow was green.
Wonder how many people here have over 5k rep?Well there are at least
200 with >12K
;)
Post by
Sas148
If you've decided to remove the Vote to Delete, in its current form, and that decision is finalized and the changes are "in progress" is there anyway the current system can be taken down then?
In the mean time, any 'Out of Date' posts can simply be 'Reported.'
Post by
Ashelia
If you've decided to remove the Vote to Delete, in its current form, and that decision is finalized and the changes are "in progress" is there anyway the current system can be taken down then?
In the mean time, any 'Out of Date' posts can simply be 'Reported.'
Removing it would take some time so we're just going to go live with the new feature and remove it at that time.
We are going to revert all VtD comments at this point in time when it goes live. Anything that wasn't deletted by a moderator, administrator, or by the person who posted the comment will be live again--this way offensive and manually deleted comments will be still deleted.
The reason is that this system was grossly abused. It's impossible for us to tell without looking through thousands of comments manually which were abused and which weren't. In the handful I have checked, though, about half of them weren't out of date, and some more were borderline out of date. So it's clear it just wasn't used right and a lot of people spree voted.
Post by
Nooska
While I understand the reasoning, it also feels like all the time devoted to looking for outdated comments and all the voting on them (the time used to check, the decisions whether I agree or not etc) has been one gigantic waste of time.
I have to ask, whether you don't think you will have to go through most of them anyway - seeing as they were put up for being outdated once, it will just fall back on a loooong queue for moderators to go through in the new system instead of a manual review - in the meanwhile, all the old out-dated data which everyone seems to agree should be hidden, will be back and in several cases on top of pages due to very high ratings.
Post by
Ashelia
While I understand the reasoning, it also feels like all the time devoted to looking for outdated comments and all the voting on them (the time used to check, the decisions whether I agree or not etc) has been one gigantic waste of time.
I have to ask, whether you don't think you will have to go through most of them anyway - seeing as they were put up for being outdated once, it will just fall back on a loooong queue for moderators to go through in the new system instead of a manual review - in the meanwhile, all the old out-dated data which everyone seems to agree should be hidden, will be back and in several cases on top of pages due to very high ratings.
It sucks, and I am really sorry we implemented such a horrible system.
However, there's about 44k comments deleted with VtD...and it is simply not fair to ask any volunteer to go through that number and expect them to be done anytime soon.
Even if we go through the criteria to only undelete comments that had a positive rating (i.e. assuming that those with negatives that were VtD'd), it's over 24k.
Post by
SpiffyJr
Quick progress update:
I've finished the heavy lifting of the code and have begun testing. Assuming my code-fu is strong we should only be dealing with minor tweaks.
Thanks!
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