Post by SquireKel
Let me respond to the critiques that have arisen since my post.
Both this:
I'm trying to make sure any tips that get posted about formatting make it into the
Guide Writing for Dummies guide if they aren't there already.
This tip-o-the-post is going to be a bit less about coding, and more about how to code. Should be good though. Probably have the whole post updated by tomorrow morning.
and this:
I'll put some serious work into this on Thursday afternoon, and then give my ideas to how to make it better and keep it more active.
indicated not only that hatman was actively working on the thread but also that he had updates on the content under control and was not in need of assistance - had he said otherwise, people such as myself would have readily stepped up to help.
The purpose of this was initially to be a venue for discussion not to lead it.
I also want to say that I do not know what your expectations of "greens" has to do with this thread. Hat posted this is a member of the community not a leader of it. Any one of the posters in this thread could have done the same or could have contributed to the first post but no one did. They could also have used it to discuss guides but that also has not happened.
True. However, the design of the thread itself as hatman created it requires updates and "leadership" - because the design he came up with has components that will be updated. The only person who is able to update the posts is the original poster, excepting authority figures stepping in. I should reiterate that I'm not attacking hatman in the least, and the only reason I call him out specifically is because he is the original poster - had it been asakawa or FatalHeaven or any other member, I would have directed my comments at that person.
You guys attack someone who went out of their way to try and do something but got no support from the people for whom he was doing it?
I'm aghast and thoroughly disappointed in both of you.
Please point to a situation in which I have NOT supported this thread. Please. I'm extremely interested in knowing when I haven't tried to help push this forward.
If you want something then go and make it (or help), don't expect it to be done
for you. You see Hat struggling to find time to do this and instead of helping create some content you stand back, criticise and blame them for not doing more?
Again, hatman at no point indicated that he was in need of assistance, nor that he was lacking in time to work on the thread - in fact, he implied he would be setting aside time to finish an update last week, proposing its update point would be the following day. I for one didn't want to step on his toes or seeming to take over his project by offering to help.
The way I see it, if people were more interested in it they would post something like "When is this going to get up dated?" or "Who are you going to interview next" or "Wow this is really awesome, can't wait for the next update/interview".
But since there's only 1 or 2 people bothering to comment and look at it, it just isn't that big of a deal. If the community really wanted to see this thing thrive, they would come in and post more. But sadly they aren't.
I have been asking about when the thread will be updated, as well as asking about the interviews and trying to give small amounts of input. And why is 1 or 2 people invested in a thread not a big deal? The thread wasn't given much time to grow and become established, so it's not at all surprising that the number of people who check on it frequently is low - again, if there is consistency in updating the thread, people will be more likely to check on it and the thread will become more active.
Wowhead is built mainly of volunteers. You don't have to be a mod to help out. Look at all the guides that have been written by normal users.
True. I am one of those normal users who writes guides.
As for "In any event, best of luck to all the grey users who've posted here - maybe the greens will meet expectations again at some point.", I found that a little uncalled for.
The mods meet my expectations. They keep the site and forums cleaned up. They also get along well with the users and offer up some advice as well as their opinions, seen in various threads. But ultimately it comes down to the normal users to make this community what it is.
Perhaps they meet your expectations in what you expect or see from them. In my experience, they do fairly well. Sometimes they seem to overstep their bounds, and sometimes they seem to do too little. I realize I'm taking a big risk and may very well be banned, removing any ability to update any of the 8 guides I have published on the site as well as ruining my streak towards the Now That's Dedication! site achievement.
The fundamental reason for my post is this:
I believe that if a user creates something on the site that promises updates - a guide or a thread such as this, it is that user's responsibility to make those updates - and not to do so, even upon repeated requests by the community, should be noted. Had hatman not wanted the responsibility to update this thread, he either should not have created it in the first place or should have designed a thread that doesn't require his updates. Similarly, a user who does not want the responsibility of updating a guide or responding to comments should not publish a guide - and if they do and find later on that they are unable or unwilling to continue to update the guide, they should pass off that responsibility to someone else.
Post by Nathanyal
What I don't get is why someone must ask for help. If you see someone struggling, don't you lend them a hand? Someone is on the way out of a building and is carrying something/being pushed in a wheelchair/on crutches/etc., do you wait for them to ask you to hold open the door or do you go help?
You said that it has been a week since Hat said he would have updated the thread. You see that it wasn't updated and what you do is post
this. You could have posted and asked if he would like some help with the topic. You didn't ask if anything went wrong. For all you know something may have happened and Hat couldn't log on to update it. Hat does have things to do IRL. He volunteered to start this thread since several people were asking for a guide forum. At first it was a nice topic, people would post and comment that they thought it was a good idea. Now look what it has come down to.
Post by SquireKel
What I don't get is why someone must ask for help. If you see someone struggling, don't you lend them a hand? Someone is on the way out of a building and is carrying something/being pushed in a wheelchair/on crutches/etc., do you wait for them to ask you to hold open the door or do you go help?
This is a completely different situation. Your example requires that I see the person struggling - I am unable to see why nothing is happening here. It's entirely possible that hatman is not in need of help, not desirous of it.
You said that it has been a week since Hat said he would have updated the thread. You see that it wasn't updated and what you do is post
this. You could have posted and asked if he would like some help with the topic. You didn't ask if anything went wrong. For all you know something may have happened and Hat couldn't log on to update it. Hat does have things to do IRL.
Picking out a single comment I posted is choosing how you want to depict me. Let's look at some other posts I've put on here:
I'm glad to see the featured guides section was updated - what about the tip of the post & interview sections?
Its actually in edit mode right now on a different tab, along with the next interview.
I'm glad to hear it - I just wanted to make sure they weren't forgotten. I think the interview section is interesting to read through, and I'm trying to make sure any tips that get posted about formatting make it into the
Guide Writing for Dummies guide if they aren't there already.
@hatman
Not to be a pain, but it's been a couple of days since you said that the updates would be live. I imagine you're busy with other things as well, but for reference, is the first post going to be updated on a monthly basis? Bi-weekly? Randomly? It'd help to know how often to check that first post, and on this thread in general.
As you can see, I made several posts asking about the state of updates, during which hatman could have indicated that it was too much work for too little benefit, or that he needed help, etc. I'm aware hatman has other responsibilities, not only as a user on this site but also as a moderator, and obviously doesn't spend his entire time sitting on Wowhead. However, each post was made after checking his user page to see if he'd been active on the site recently - each time he had been within 6 hours.