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How's my Tanking Tree?
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Post by
469842
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Post by
Porcell
I'll start with the easy questions. If there's a priest in your group, do Battle Shout. If there's a DK in your group, do Commanding Shout. If there both in your group, it doesn't matter. If there is neither in your group, and you have a lot of melee damagers, use Battle, otherwise you commanding.
Prime glyphs are self-evident. Major glyphs there aren't that many super strong ones, though I'd say Glyph of Cleaving is pretty mandatory. I use Cleaving, Thunderclap (the range increasing one) and Shockwave. Victory Rush can be a good one to use also. I wouldn't use Sundering.
Minor glyphs, use Berserker Rage for one and Demo Shout for the other, and your choice between battle and commanding.
As for the spec, which talents you use depends on what you are using your character for. Someone who is PvPing will be different than someone who is just running heroic instances, which is different than someone who's just farming normal raids, which is different than someone who is pushing heroic raid progression. WIthout knowing what you want it for, it's hard to answer. My spec, for example, has both Blood Craze (for heroic 25m Spine) and Safeguard (for heroic 25m Madness). I would not normally take those two talents in a normal raiding situation.
You have Blitz, which might be okay for instances and PvP, but it's a great talent. Blood Craze is also not a very good talent unless you have a LOT of stuff hitting you, and even then the amount of healing is small compared to what you get from a dedicated healer (though it is decent for PvP). Safeguard's not that good except maybe arenas (but who does Prot Arena...) and heroic madness for an extra cooldown. Gag Order, again, is good for PvP and instances but not raid tanking.
Post by
138583
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Post by
469842
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
469842
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xsound
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZobZfMGdRRRzru:0oVckazMk
is how I spec. I nerfed myself abit AoE wise, but AoE tanking is so easy. (Charge, Thunder, Shockwave, Spam cleave and thunder).
I also didn't take deep wounds because I like my Safeguard talent and Impending Victory is actually nice to have when the fight usually gets the toughest. (ultraxion)
Safeguard.. I wouldnt glyph it. I just use it to provide my second tank with a 6 second 30% damage reduction on all fights where we use 2 tanks. And I use it on every cooldown or accordingly to our strategy.
- Morchok in the beginning for positioning + Right before a stomp. And much more usefull in heroic mode aswell.
- Ultraxion at every hour of twilight. It's usually a DK or Palla co-tank I got, so they can take every HoT. and every reduction helps.
- Blackthorn on onslaughts on a squishy member, and we got a special guy in my tanking square who takes the small swirly thingies. I use it on him. During blackthorn himself I just try to keep it on the co-tank when he is tanking.
- Spine on 9 stacks of blood on a random member with healing debuff and on a random member with healing debuff when we roll. If Im tanking blood I put on DPS gear and stay in prot so I can intervene the amalg tank and people who get fiery gripped and I just generally try to intervene whenever there is big damage inc.
Especially on Spine Im pretty sure it has saved our asses a few times. Rest of the bosses in DS you can solo tank.
On the bosses I didn't mention (because you can solo tank them) I usually intervene people who will take hits. Zonozz during black phase and Yors when there is AoE damage or some clothy is being focused by an add. Hagara just before they get trapped in ice or to get out of range even quicker and reduce some ice-lance damage. Madness on any big damage inc (elementium bolt, those small tentacles and on someone with shrapnell.
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it. 30% reduction is huge combined with other defensive cooldowns and just in general on the co-tank. My spec has all the defensive talents you need and much more utility. It makes prot warrior that much more fun. The ordinary spec that everyone else proposes gives no real advantage over mine since AoE tanking is that easy and rage is not a problem. I do a tiny bit less damage for alot more utility and fun!
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability. But the heal from Blood crazy is a joke! It heals for nothing during a raid or instance.
- If you feel you need more AoE tanking then remove Blood Craze point and 1 point in either gag order or shield speci. (honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw. Makes heroics that much easier. Rage is not a problem even with 1/3 shield speci) and take 2/2 Thunderstruck and follow the glyph advice below.
The only real glyph I would consider changing is Sunder Armor to Increased Thunder clap range. But I like the DPS gain that other melees get from sunder armor glyph. Besides, 1 Shockwave and they are all mine.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell. Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xsound
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it.
We do, we just died more than once from intervening the other tank.
Also, the Op is about entry tanking, you talk about hc raiding. Two different things.
Well then use it at the right time. I would still take it on entry tanking because it will give you more time to get familiar with the skill and not die because you use it at the wrong time.
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability. But the heal from Blood crazy is a joke! It heals for nothing during a raid or instance.
Proc what exactly? Do you use any trinkets that proc on healing done? Arent they for healers?
Windwalk and most procable trinkets proc on melee swings.
Proc windwalk. Windwalk can proc of Blood Craze - and I think that trinkets can proc off of it aswell. Not that it's important at all, I just like to have it.
- If you feel you need more AoE tanking then remove Blood Craze point and 1 point in either gag order or shield speci.
What has gag order to do with aoe?
Nothing. I said he could remove a point in blood craze and either shield speci or gag order to get Thunderstruck.
(honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw. Makes heroics that much easier. Rage is not a problem even with 1/3 shield speci) and take 2/2 Thunderstruck and follow the glyph advice below.
Rage is always a problem, unless you can hs/cleave dump 24/7 with zerker rage and inner rage on cd, while doing everything else. If you can, than i guess its not a problem for you. I cant.
With 2/3 shield speci I can do that most of the time unless I get some unlucky streaks. I still feel the extra utility I get is worth it to do it most of the time rather than 24/7.
The only real glyph I would consider changing is Sunder Armor to Increased Thunder clap range. But I like the DPS gain that other melees get from sunder armor glyph. Besides, 1 Shockwave and they are all mine.
If anything lives long enough for those sunders to matter your melee dps should l2p.
It's not about my melee DPS learning to play, but that there are no better glyphs for me. Thunderclap got enough range.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
Because threat is an issue, oh wait.
Wasnt that you you prefered sunder glyph for increased dps? And now devastate is last prio on the pull? Inconsistency.
Now I have to nerdrage. Sorry. BUT READ! "Charge boss". I dont use concussion blows on trash till I got them save and then I can use it on target 3 to get a nice threat boost. On trash I charge in, get my threat up and start AoEing while devastating as much as possible to get that bit extra out of the glyph. The glyph spreads sunder to a second target, and I said to use Concussion blow to get high threat on a boss. Actually many tanks recommend using Concussion Blow in your rotation
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell. Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
Yeah, use 1 talent point to make a 5 minute trash fight that occurs once per raid a little easier.
Also many people dont realise you can silence/interrupt these drakes as well to pull them down. Also plenty other classes have taunts and interrupts.
Also as mentioned, its completely useless outside 2 boss tank fights. Which is Zonozz, Yorsaj, Hagara and whole normal content beside maybe Warmaster.
I did not underline ultraxion. I underlined vengeance. I mentioned ultraxion to show some stuff that got easier because of vengeance. Any fight where you are 2 tanks, it is nice to have vengeance. Now you are being inconsistant Mr. DamageOutPut. Vegeance is loads of damage on any 2 tank fight and you are just skipping that? Shame on you.
About Blood and thunder comment - Its not about aoe tanking being easy, its about your Aoe dps output. Rend is like 20-30% damage on aoe pulls.
And I said I was perfectly fine with skipping out on some DPS for more utility. And again Mr. Inconsistency, didn't you mention "entry-level tanking"? I wouldn't think that DPS would be of much concern in entry-level, nor that high either, even if you focused on it as a tank.
Now. you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm pretty sure you can't convince me that your spec is better, atleast not for anything other than heroic madness. And even on that fight I'd say safeguard is rather nice. Heck, even impending victory could do some good in P2.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xsound
Look Im done arguing with an idiot, but before I get dragged down to your level I might aswell teach you something. Blood Craze can proc weapon enchants. I know that the enchant doesn't say it will proc from healing done, but blood craze is kinda weird that way. I guess that's just one of those little fun things in the game.
Im not going to provide you with logs or links. You aren't reading my posts at all and you are coming from a 400ilvl+ geared druid thinking you know all about warrior tanking just because you have one. But just because some of us like to focus on 1 class, rather than 10, does not mean we can't find your little frontpage EJ sources or noxxic. No my friend, I've seen all the mainstream stuff and I've seen the more interesting stuff.
"What utility?" you ask, and mention gag order. Really low. I remarked earlier that gag order has no use in raids, and now you are talking about me favoring it? Hey, are you running for president? You wouldn't even need a spindoctor, you just put your own spin on everything so that it fits your next sentence.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##Please try not to let your frustration get the better of you. If you have a point to make I need you to make it without insults. Try just taking a step back before replying and looking at exactly what's important then address the points not the person.
Thanks.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
marklartank
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZobZfMGdRRRzru:0oVckazMk
is how I spec. I nerfed myself abit AoE wise, but AoE tanking is so easy. (Charge, Thunder, Shockwave, Spam cleave and thunder).
you didn't just nerf AoE a little bit...
for the OP, who will probably be doing a lot of heroics to gear up, B&T + Thunderstruck are two of the most important talents to take. and shield spec is certainly worth 3/3 when tanking multiple mobs. personally, i would also pick up deep wounds - at least until i got to progression raids.
Impending Victory is actually nice to have when the fight usually gets the toughest. (ultraxion)
i tried really hard to like this talent. i even used both glyphs for quite a while. i would even argue that it had some use very early in T11 when healers were struggling for mana - i certainly think it saved me from dying a time or two. but nowadays, the raid damage is much higher and the heal is just too small to be effective. in heroics, nobody is below 20% long enough to even use it, and you actually get a lot of the "real" VR procs, which are very noticeable heals.
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it.
i've always liked the idea of safeguard and trying to find ways to use it. it sounds like you are actively doing that and so it's probably worth the 2 points for raiding. for the OP, i wouldn't take it until he gets to non-LFR raids.
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability.
even if this did proc trinkets AND windwalk (and there's nothing to suggest it does), it's unlikely to add much uptime to either. there's usually enough stuff going on to keep trinkets on their ICD.
honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw.
this is always a debate, and people have strong opinions one way or the other. i think it's fine for heroics (although not necessary by any means). i had it when i first hit 85, but once i dropped the talent i found i much preferred to spell-reflect-tank casters anyway.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
last time i checked (and i'll admit it's been a while), it was only slightly more threat than devastate. and since it doesn't proc S&B, it might actually be less in the long run for boss fights. for trash and 5-mans it certainly can be helpful, so it's not a bad point to spend for the OP. i kept the talent for quite a while in T11, but i could never find much use for it after that.
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell.
taunting spiders on beth'tilac is the only time this content patch i can remember vigilance being useful. it's just really not worth the point (or two). most of the time when co-tanking in raids, AoE damage will refresh your stacks, and it has almost no use at all in heroics.
Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
it's about the best talent in the tree for aoe tanking, so i would certainly not skip it in heroics. even for raiding it's worth it for trash and adds.
____________
one more thing - zakkhar was the only one who mentioned it, but incite is the talent the OP should skip pre-raiding. that's 3 points freed up for an attack that rarely gets used in heroics.
i would probably do something like
this
for a new 85 in heroics.
Post by
328067
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Post by
138583
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Post by
MrSCH
He's right, having leveled a warrior solely as Prot Shockwave is immensely valuable in five mans and leveling.
Post by
marklartank
very nice leveling spec to provide mark. basically what i used at the start of cata to farm dungeons etc.
Its about the same as mine proposal for the op, but i would change sunder armor for shockwave. threat isnt a problem and trash wont stand long enough to benefit from a little bit of added damage.
I find shockwave a very good survival cooldown on trash pulls (gives your healer time to cast anything before you go splat), so glyph of shockwave would fit me better.
yeah, that makes sense - shockwave is probably the better choice.
Post by
328067
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Post by
138583
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