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Post-Patch: Ret / Prot Questions
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Post by
836308
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tontons
-Are prots still prefered tanks?
I don't know it yet.
-How do prots compare to other tanks? (dmg mitigation / threat / utilities?)
Let's wait MoP and compare at lvl 90. I feel worse because of the taunt change. I liked the old pally taunt better than the tank standard taunt.
-What stats should we go for, and in what order?
We should also wait for lvl 90 to answer this one. But I think threat won't be a problem, so it might be the same as it was before we covered the CTC in 4.2/4.3:
mastery > dodge/parry > stamina > expertise/hit...
-What would dungeon / raiding specs look like?
There are some topics in this forum where we talk about that, check them out yourself. I guess the specs will be quite flexible and we will change them depending on encounter.
-What rotations should be used?
This is a hard one and might depend on whether you have the Sanctified Wrath talent or not.
Without SW you will CS every third GCD. Also do J as much as you can. And fill the other GCDs with AS, Cons or HW.
So without SW it might be look like this chaos:
CS - J - AS - CS -
SotR
- Cons - J - CS - HW - ... - CS -
SotR
- J - Cons - CS - AS - J -
SotR
- CS
It's basically more of a priority system not a straight rotation.
With SW J becomes your main Hp builder. You can do J - CS - J cycles to build HP and only do one filler between these cycles:
J - CS - J -
SotR
- - J - CS - J -
SotR
- - J - CS - J -
SotR
- -
Fillers are the same:
1) AS; 2) Cons; 3) HW.
Every cycle consumes 4GCD. That means you can do this filler rotation constantly or you can do Cons/HW more often if you're in a AoE tanking situation.
Replace SotR with WoG if needed, also mind the Bastion of Glory management.
Replace CS with HotR in AoE situations.
There might be better rotations aswell, I haven't used the 5 HP storing ability in these rotations...
-Where do prots excell the most?
No idea but I still feel fine with AoE tanking.
-Anything that is very different since pre-patch?
Oh yes, the rotation. We have longer cooldown on Crusader Strike, we can store up to 5 HP and Shield of the Righteous is not on GCD. You also don't have Inquisition anymore.
Post by
Nooska
Prots:
-Are prots still prefered tanks?
I honestly can't say, as preferred will depend a lot on what ways each tank may have to cheese a certain mechanic.
-How do prots compare to other tanks? (dmg mitigation / threat / utilities?)
All 5 tanks should be relatively close (looking at evel 90)
-What stats should we go for, and in what order?
Prots can now (at 85) and at 90 choose between 2 gearing paradigms;
TDR (total damage reduction) gearing, and Control(or smooting) gearing.
TDR you go for parry>dodge and stamina (strength is very powerful for parry now), ignore mastery - or rather, pick up only what you get.
Control, go hit/exp>mastery>haste.
The control stats (hit, exp, mastery and haste) devalue the TDR stats, and the TDR stats devalue the control stats - this is due to block being moved to a 2 roll system - the more you dodge and parry, the less attacks go to the block roll.
-What would dungeon / raiding specs look like?
Well, since you chose a spec as prot, you would go as prot.
For talents, it varies, though Sacred Shield will be the best talent on its tier (preventing damage is better than healing it)
-What rotations should be used?
I invite you to look at
Maintankadin
under basics - or currently advanced theorycraft, there will be a maximum dps rotation at some point, but basically, you use your HoPo generators asap, to make sure you have the most HoPo per second over the fight, since this is waht you turn into active mitigation with
Shield of the Righteous
-Where do prots excell the most?
Depends on specific mechanics, but selfhealing is huge currently.
-Anything that is very different since pre-patch?
pre-patch being before 5.0.4? yes, almost nothing is the same anymore.
Post by
422429
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
836308
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nooska
The icy-veins prot paladin guide doesn't appear to have been updated with teh gearing post-patch
Post by
Freezador
-What rotations should be used?
This is a hard one and might depend on whether you have the Sanctified Wrath talent or not.
Without SW you will CS every third GCD. Also do J as much as you can. And fill the other GCDs with AS, Cons or HW.
So without SW it might be look like this chaos:
CS - J - AS - CS -
SotR
- Cons - J - CS - HW - ... - CS -
SotR
- J - Cons - CS - AS - J -
SotR
- CS
It's basically more of a priority system not a straight rotation.
I'm not sure if you took into account that
Shield of the Righteous
and
Word of Glory
are not on the GCD. This in turn leads to shorter cycle times (and takes some time to get used to as a player).
Post by
Nooska
The cycle is
||: CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X :||
You pop ShotR or WoG as needed (both ore off the GCD) and the X's are filled with, the fillers (one of which* should be HotR atleast every 30 seconds to keep up the Weakend Blows debuff).
* last I read, HotR and Cs do not share CD, but are bothe on a 4.5 sec CD - if they share a CD again, its one of the CS's that has to be replaced, but no biggie either way.
Post by
Tontons
So without SW it might be look like this chaos:
CS - J - AS - CS -
SotR
- Cons - J - CS - HW - ... - CS -
SotR
- J - Cons - CS - AS - J -
SotR
- CS
I'm not sure if you took into account that
Shield of the Righteous
and
Word of Glory
are not on the GCD. This in turn leads to shorter cycle times (and takes some time to get used to as a player).
Yea, I did. You can see that because
not counting SotR
there is always at least 2 other abilities between two CStrikes and at least 3 between each pair of J ;) I'd say my rotation is the same as Nooska's.
I told wrong about stats though - I didn't know about those block roll changes.
* last I read, HotR and Cs do not share CD, but are bothe on a 4.5 sec CD - if they share a CD again, its one of the CS's that has to be replaced, but no biggie either way.
They do share CD in 5.0.4. If they didn't, the rotations might also be different as HotR generates HP too.
Post by
Scotia
My paladin is currently Ret Main/Holy Off, but I was toying with trying Prot for kicks... so thanks for the info, everyone. I've only ever tanked on a Warrior in the past. That said, as a druid healer and various dps, I have never seen any class be a "preferred" tank (except for Raid warriors back in Vanilla and BC).... although each tank class, I'm sure, will tell you that they are. ;) Healing for my Prot Paladin guildie, I can say he's got a very nice SHTF button in Eternal Flame and LoH... something I don't think any of the other tanking classes have in any way as effective. They all have self heals, but nothing as OMG noticeable to me as a healer.
Also, another vote for Icy Veins. I kind of like that site.
Post by
581897
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nooska
In regards to Icy-veins, it seems to have been updated now, the stat priority at least is correct, and divided into the different gearing strategies.
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