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Alliance vs. Horde (Legitmate discussion please)
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Post by
Atik
The best part about ironforge? To siege ironforge you have to siege stormwind at the same time.
unless you blow up the tram....
And considering part of it goes through the ocean. I imagine you could at least flood it.
Post by
Monday
Heck, it's a glass tunnel. Plant some charges and the two cities are separated.
Post by
Adamsm
Of course, all Ironforge has to do is seal the gate way and unless the Horde has several hundred mana bombs, there is no way in....and as seen when you look at Magni, there are a lot of tunnels and other things all over the place down there.
Post by
Atik
Of course, all Ironforge has to do is seal the gate way and unless the Horde has several hundred mana bombs, there is no way in....and as seen when you look at Magni, there are a lot of tunnels and other things all over the place down there.
Yes, but we're speciffically talking about the tram.
We all know seiging Ironforge would suck.
Post by
Monday
Of course, all Ironforge has to do is seal the gate way and unless the Horde has several hundred mana bombs, there is no way in....and as seen when you look at Magni, there are a lot of tunnels and other things all over the place down there.
Yes, but we're speciffically talking about the tram.
We all know seiging Ironforge would suck.
^
Then again, the Horde could set up AA defenses and cut off Ironforge completely, leaving it to starve.
Post by
Atik
Or, as you said Adams, there are tunnels all over.
There might be ways in that noone knows about. Or a way could at least be made in.
The mental image of a Horde Army in some sort of tunnling mech coming up through the lava in the great forge is admittedly kinda awesome.
Post by
Adamsm
Then again, the Horde could set up AA defenses and cut off Ironforge completely, leaving it to starve.
I actually doubt it would be easy to starve; we don't know if there are mushroom farms and the like on the inside of the city after all, or just how much actual stored supplies they have there. After all, the Dwarves weren't suffering too much when the Dark Horde were laying siege to the city back during the Second War.
Post by
Skreeran
Or, as you said Adams, there are tunnels all over.
There might be ways in that noone knows about. Or a way could at least be made in.
The mental image of a Horde Army in some sort of tunnling mech coming up through the lava in the great forge is admittedly kinda awesome.That is kinda awesome sounding. Imagine the pilot with
this
face too.
Post by
Monday
Then again, the Horde could set up AA defenses and cut off Ironforge completely, leaving it to starve.
I actually doubt it would be easy to starve; we don't know if there are mushroom farms and the like on the inside of the city after all, or just how much actual stored supplies they have there. After all, the Dwarves weren't suffering too much when the Dark Horde were laying siege to the city back during the Second War.
And how long did that last, though? You also didn't mention that they were rescued by the human forces instead of breaking the siege themselves.
Now, you know how much I love dwarves, but once a siege was laid, it wouldn't be as bad as sieging some of the other capitals.
Post by
Skreeran
Or, as you said Adams, there are tunnels all over.
There might be ways in that noone knows about. Or a way could at least be made in.
The mental image of a Horde Army in some sort of tunnling mech coming up through the lava in the great forge is admittedly kinda awesome.That is kinda awesome sounding. Imagine the pilot with
this
face too.Off-Topic: Seeing that glorious WC2 icon prompted me to try something I've never tried before. I AM GOING TO CREATE ART. Like, actual painting by eye, rather than vector based, like most of the stuff I've made (MLP vectors, Dirk's hat and glasses in my avatar).
Okay, really I'm just painting over a giant blown up version of that tiny icon sprite, but who cares, it's something I've never attempted... :P
This
is what I have so far, painted entirely by hand with just GIMP and my mouse.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Or, as you said Adams, there are tunnels all over.
There might be ways in that noone knows about. Or a way could at least be made in.
The mental image of a Horde Army in some sort of tunnling mech coming up through the lava in the great forge is admittedly kinda awesome.That is kinda awesome sounding. Imagine the pilot with
this
face too.Off-Topic: Seeing that glorious WC2 icon prompted me to try something I've never tried before. I AM GOING TO CREATE ART. Like, actual painting by eye, rather than vector based, like most of the stuff I've made (MLP vectors, Dirk's hat and glasses in my avatar).
Okay, really I'm just painting over a giant blown up version of that tiny icon sprite, but who cares, it's something I've never attempted... :P
This
is what I have so far, painted entirely by hand with just GIMP and my mouse.
Nice. Using the mouse has to suck though. I remember trying that for a little while before returning to pencil and paper.
Post by
Atik
I used to do sprite art all the time...
I couldn't even imagine doing an entire picture like that with just a mouse. (Although I remember someone once did a few AWESOME Kaiju drawings with nothing but a mouse and MS Paint.)
Post by
Lordplatypus
On the other note, besieging undercity? Piece of cake just collapse lordaeron on them. It can't be that hard considering all the mess the forsaken made down there.
Thunder Bluff You do realise that the alliance these days have air superiority right?
Orgrimmar: It's already choked into two entrances, drop that big gunship bomb and goodbye org
Silvermoon where?
On a more serious note, the blood elves aren't exactly hardy and probably are the easiest race to starve.
Troll Isles area (Forgot name) Just do what proudmoore did with less plot armored half ogres.
On the other hand
Stormwind
The towers are some tough stuff if deathwing could stand on them without them falling down, so demolishers won't really work. It has a easy access to farms right outside, which probably don't feed everyone, but they can always rely on their air power to break horde blockades and i doubt they have naval anti-air just yet.
Ironforge: Having their natural defenses, a non-minable mountain on top of them, sizable deeper underground areas to farm mushrooms and such, the Dwarves are probably the best entrenched race
Darnassus, Ok yeah, it's not looking good for the night elves due to their tree being so vulnerable to flaming weapons. Druids can call the rain but how long?
Gnomeregan (taken back right now) Probably easy to take down since they're still rebuilding
Post by
Adamsm
As we discussed to death here, it's hard to invade all the great cities of Azeroth.
Post by
Atik
besieging undercity? Piece of cake just collapse lordaeron on them. It can't be that hard considering all the mess the forsaken made down there.
Well, it's still going to be about as hard as collapsing any city. Take a run around down there and you'll notice that, especially right around the central ring, the Forsaken have been sure to leave a lot of supports. (Generally, this would be because they've made it under a crumbling ruin, and don't want one falling wall to spell doom for them.)
Thunder Bluff You do realise that the alliance these days have air superiority right?
Tauren have lots of Shamans and Druids. Good luck flying in a thunderstorm... or a hurricane.
Orgrimmar: It's already choked into two entrances, drop that big gunship bomb and goodbye org
See those big huge cliffs in-game? Take a second to chill on one and just look down on Orgrimmar.
Garrosh made that place into a fortress. Massive walls that are absurdly thick (And you could quite easily close them down, or block the walkways. There is loads of crap up in the rafters just ASKING to be dropped on people.) Air guards everywhere. (There are at least three groups flying around in-game, and I'm positive more could be called in.)
Also, just to drive the nail in, take a look at the Azshara entrance. See those? Those are TANKS. Azshara is also the main production area for the machine's of war we see throughout the game. Good luck taking that without a fight.
The Barrens entrance and the troll section might be comparatively easy-looking to attack. But keep in mind that invading there lands you in a bottle neck. The troll area has massive walls to either side, which the Horde can easily use to attack you from. And right to their back in the Goblin district, which means that if you take too long, you're going to have some SERIOUS firepower in your face.
Silvermoon where?
On a more serious note, the blood elves aren't exactly hardy and probably are the easiest race to starve.
Alright, this one I'll kinda agree with. As it is in-game, Silvermoon would probably be one of, if not the easiest city to capture.
Poor Blood Elves. ;.;
Stormwind
The towers are some tough stuff if deathwing could stand on them without them falling down, so demolishers won't really work. It has a easy access to farms right outside, which probably don't feed everyone, but they can always rely on their air power to break horde blockades and i doubt they have naval anti-air just yet.
Okay... you've totally missed Stormwind's biggest advantage.
The city is built in sections. As an invading army comes in, you can literally slash and burn. Trap them in the Trade District by cutting off the exits, and turn the seige around on them.
Ironforge: Having their natural defenses, a non-minable mountain on top of them, sizable deeper underground areas to farm mushrooms and such, the Dwarves are probably the best entrenched race
See the whole discussion above. There are tunnels going all through that mountain and letting out who knows where. If they tried, the Horde could totally find a way in.
Now, dropping an army into the middle of the enemy city? Not a great idea. But if nothing else, it would be a nice shock factor towards the Dwarfs to see that; yes, the enemy can still get in.
Darnassus, Ok yeah, it's not looking good for the night elves due to their tree being so vulnerable to flaming weapons. Druids can call the rain but how long?
We've honestly discussed this one to death.
Teldrassil is apparently sentient, and capable of defending itself to an extent. That, and it is so huge, that burning it really just isn't an option. And besides that, do you even want to IMAGINE how pissed the Night Elves would be if you tried? Their entire populace would be down there to kick your face in. (And, well, that's a lot of angry elves.)
Exodar (which you failed to mention) actually has a really good advantage. The ship itself can actually be closed off, and the Draenei are talented enough with magics to portal in supplies. OR, better yet, pull a mass recall to Darnassus and leave the Horde beating on an empty ship. (The thing is still in recognizable condition after hitting a planet. It can't be easy to break through)
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Teldrassil is apparently sentient, and capable of defending itself to an extent. That, and it is so huge, that burning it really just isn't an option. And besides that, do you even want to IMAGINE how pissed the Night Elves would be if you tried? Their entire populace would be down there to kick your face in. (And, well, that's a lot of angry elves.)
If Nordrassil can burn, so can Teldrassil. C'mon man. It's not so much the NEs that I'd worry about in terms of setting a tree like that on fire, it's the Cenarion Circle. Not good when your troll/tauren durids decide to turn on you because you tried to burn down Teldrassil.
Ultimately I think it's going to come down to where the neutral groups stand - which right now means the Alliance would stomp the Horde bad. As much as I love the outcasts, Garrosh made certain no neutral group would ever back him up.Of course, in Teldrassil's case, one could argue that it was never sanctioned in the first place. There was a lot of dissent about the vailidity of Teldrassil and the hubris of Staghelm, who ended up going to the Dark Side anyway. Even now that Alexstrazsa and Ysera gave it their blessing, I can still see it being a sort of blasphemy in the eyes of some druids; particularly those who don't live in it.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Well, it's still going to be about as hard as collapsing any city. Take a run around down there and you'll notice that, especially right around the central ring, the Forsaken have been sure to leave a lot of supports. (Generally, this would be because they've made it under a crumbling ruin, and don't want one falling wall to spell doom for them.)
Point taken, But i still say the only real defense undercity has is BLIGHTEVERYTHINGBLARGH And it is a good defense. But gnomish tech will come up with biohazard suits to be worn under armor too.
Tauren have lots of Shamans and Druids. Good luck flying in a thunderstorm... or a hurricane.
How long can they keep it up? That's what matters, and placing a storm above your own city? Great thinking.
See those big huge cliffs in-game? Take a second to chill on one and just look down on Orgrimmar.
Garrosh made that place into a fortress. Massive walls that are absurdly thick (And you could quite easily close them down, or block the walkways. There is loads of crap up in the rafters just ASKING to be dropped on people.) Air guards everywhere. (There are at least three groups flying around in-game, and I'm positive more could be called in.)
Also, just to drive the nail in, take a look at the Azshara entrance. See those? Those are TANKS. Azshara is also the main production area for the machine's of war we see throughout the game. Good luck taking that without a fight.
The Barrens entrance and the troll section might be comparatively easy-looking to attack. But keep in mind that invading there lands you in a bottle neck. The troll area has massive walls to either side, which the Horde can easily use to attack you from. And right to their back in the Goblin district, which means that if you take too long, you're going to have some SERIOUS firepower in your face.
You mention the Walls of Orgrimmar but dismiss the walls of Stormwind, Which are proven to be very durable and can withstand the full weight of Deathwing (Who's a freaking volcano with metal plates attached in dragon form). While Orgrimmar's are most likely made in a short span of time, which leaves little room for error. Since it's been contracted out to goblins however.............
More importantly, the cliffs will take any heavy explosive (Like the large bomb under the alliance gunship) and channel it, causing more destruction across the city. Either way, Orgrimmar is hastily-rebuilt and has cracks in it's defenses in all directions. Early mortar strikes into Azshara would probably detonate all their weapons there, which is a catastrophic blast in the making.
Alright, this one I'll kinda agree with. As it is in-game, Silvermoon would probably be one of, if not the easiest city to capture.
Poor Blood Elves. ;.;
Thanks for agreeing
Okay... you've totally missed Stormwind's biggest advantage.
The city is built in sections. As an invading army comes in, you can literally slash and burn. Trap them in the Trade District by cutting off the exits, and turn the seige around on them.
The canals are practically small moats aren't they? You'll have to first break through some of the most durable walls in Azeroth and then fight district-to-district.
See the whole discussion above. There are tunnels going all through that mountain and letting out who knows where. If they tried, the Horde could totally find a way in.
Now, dropping an army into the middle of the enemy city? Not a great idea. But if nothing else, it would be a nice shock factor towards the Dwarfs to see that; yes, the enemy can still get in.
The Dwarves will probably know about these tunnels first with their knowledge of the land and innate digging nature. So the tunnels will lead to collapses after each entrance, and more tunnels dug downwards to make more farms.
So in total
Exodar>Ironforge>Stormwind>Orgrimmar>Undercity>Gnomeregan>Teledrassil>Thunder Bluff>Silvermoon (Or the half of it that's still standing).
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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