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Do you believe in God?
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Post by
asakawa
I don't think it changes things all that much for me you know. Rather than Einstein it might be more comparable to a brilliant scientist who learned enormous amounts about human biology and anatomy, whose discoveries still underpin all modern medicine, but who made their discoveries through vivisection. Their brilliance is undeniable as are their achievements and legacy. But if one were morally offended by their actions then one would certainly be less inclined to want to spend an eternity in their presence.
Post by
Squishalot
Even if he defined universal morality? Not even to question and reconcile for yourself why he did such things? I mean, this guy created the universe, created good and evil, and you're not even remotely curious as to the motivation behind his actions? We go to great lengths in high school to learn about Hitler and a whole number of other evil figures who've done some pretty heinous things - why wouldn't God be equally worthy of study?(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
asakawa
If we were present in World War 2 and you were a journalist with the opportunity to live with Hitler in his bunker would you do it despite your agreement to do so being viewed as a tacit approval of his actions? In fact not just tacit approval, support and praise for Hitler and his actions being a requirement for the opportunity.
We're being drawn into comparisons between the Christian god and Hitler which is not a place I'm comfortable holding the discussion because, while it demonstrates a small part of the point we're interested in here, it could easily be viewed as offensive if taken for a larger analogue.
Let's just say that I see immorality in the actions done by the god of the old testament. If that god requires worship then that would not be something I would be willing to do. Piquing my scientific interest isn't nearly enough for me to get over that hurdle.
edited to be less accusatory as that wasn't my intention(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
The Christian God was brutal, Hitler believed he was doing what was best for his people. Are they not the same?
Hitler lacked omnipotence, and the ability to judge, and make universal rules, and Hitler didn't create us... etc etc.
Post by
Gone
Ok just to clear up the whole "sheep" comment I made last night. I really didn't mean it to be that negative. All I meant was that from a secular mindset, we are the biggest things out there. We control the world and our own lives. Where as when you take into account the existence of a higher power that is no longer true. We become much smaller than we originally believed and are subject to the wills and whims of another. This can be hard to accept for people born into a world where we are raised with an opposite mindset.
@Adams, actually it's true of any God that's greater than the people he creates. So yes by definition any God.
@Skreeran
I've been thinking about it, and is what happened to the children in Egypt really that bad? He gave them a quick and painless death in their sleep, and they were children so he probably took them straight to Heaven. The only ones who suffered were the parents, and that is only a fraction of the total suffering that God ended by freeing the slaves of Egypt.
Post by
Adamsm
@Adams, actually it's true of any God that's greater than the people he creates. So yes by definition any God.
Semi-true...however, not all religions are like the Christian/Catholic ones, and the God figures in those ones are not about the believers being sheep and only do as they are told...and depending on where you go, there are those among both the Christians and Catholics who do say that due to Free Will, people shouldn't just calmly accept what they are told but think about it and decide for themselves.
But then again, I'm a believer in a religion where the main tenet is 'Do what you will, but harm none'(of course, it's entirely possible that the consort of the Goddess is one of those who used to do the Wild Hunt so...).
Post by
MyTie
We become much smaller than we originally believed and are subject to the wills and whims of another.
Psalm 100:3
Know that the LORD Himself is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves; We are His people and the sheep of His pasture.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
And your proof that "God" did all that is where?You said "The Christian God". The Christian God, is by definition of Christianity, those things. You can believe it, or not, but if you are asking about the differences between the Christian God, and Hitler, there are several.Ask the German Jews if Hitler couldn't make universal rules, or have the ability to judge.
Hell you could level the same for thousands of rulers of man, who displayed the same qualities you equate to God.
Hitler certainly could make rules, that applied to the German people, and people under his rule, but he couldn't make universal rules. For instance, he couldn't command Earth to stop spinning, or command life into existence.
Yeah Sheep, got that right.
I consider it a compliment. I'd rather be the sheep of a perfect God, an all loving God, an all powerful God, one that will make my enemies a footstool to me, and gives me eternal bliss, than rely on my own pride and muscle. I know you mean this in some derogatory manner, but I am God's bondservant, a slave to Him and His word. I am the sheep of His pasture, under His watch and never ending care.
Post by
Skreeran
@Skreeran
I've been thinking about it, and is what happened to the children in Egypt really that bad? He gave them a quick and painless death in their sleep, and they were children so he probably took them straight to Heaven. The only ones who suffered were the parents, and that is only a fraction of the total suffering that God ended by freeing the slaves of Egypt.While I see where you're coming from (despite not believing in Heaven, etc.), still, I just think it's kind of a idiot move to a) the parents, and b) those firstborn who were old enough to go to Hell (if you believe that). Also, if God can just whisk kids to Heaven before they get the chance to live their lives, then why is it even necessary for us to live and suffer in life? Why aren't we just born in Heaven?(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##Language filter circumvention. Not a bad one and I know it's part of the vernacular but still, better to avoid it.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
I find the belief in deities incompatible with a mind capable of logical reasoning.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
And that is all the justification people need to tread you into the ground.
Which I honestly hope happens.
Can't argue with indoctrination so of course you are right,
Why is it that you think being a sheep of God is welcoming being "treaded into the ground"? I consider being a sheep of God more powerful than being a lion. Why is it that you hope people tread me into the ground? Is it because I have views that are different than you?If god told you to jump off a bridge, the reason being because he said so, would you do it? I'm actually curious. I don't want you to jump off a bridge, I'm just curious as to whether there's a point where god could cross the line.
If God told me to jump off a bridge? Heh. Well, it weren't the first thousand times I've heard that question.
If God told me to jump off a bridge, that wouldn't be God. If X were not X, would X be X? If God were not God, would God still be your God? It's such an asinine question. No. I wouldn't jump off a bridge if God told me to. My reasoning for following God are based in my understanding of God.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
If I knew it was really God and I wasn't having a psychotic episode, then yes I would jump off a bridge if God told me to.
If God told me to jump off a bridge, that wouldn't be God. If X were not X, would X be X? If God were not God, would God still be your God? It's such an asinine question. No. I wouldn't jump off a bridge if God told me to. My reasoning for following God are based in my understanding of God.
What if it was the same thing that he did with Abraham, a test of faith? Maybe God intended for an angel to catch you at the last second.
Post by
PTsICU
If I knew it was really God and I wasn't having a psychotic episode, then yes I would jump off a bridge if God told me to.
How does one tell the difference?
Post by
MyTie
What if it was the same thing that he did with Abraham, a test of faith? Maybe God intended for an angel to catch you at the last second.
Matt 16:4
God doesn't do signs and direct works anymore.How does one tell the difference?
God wrote down what we are to do, and we can always refer to that. It's explicitly clear in how we are to live our lives. "Jumping off bridges" is not in the Bible. There is no "what if". "What if the Bible said to jump off a bridge"? It doesn't.
Can we move on now?
Post by
Gone
Matt 16:4
God doesn't do signs and direct works anymore.
It's a hypothetical question. Maybe God changed his mind and decided to give you a test.
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