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Just lost another 30 days off Thats Some Dedication..
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Post by
Erorus
i had nearly 320 days but now only 123
http://www.wowhead.com/user=Bupko
So you missed January 11, 2013. Here's your rep log for the surrounding days in the server time zone:
Jan 10 04:48:45am -
Daily Visit
Jan 10 02:21:42pm - Received comment upvote
Jan 12 04:30:30am -
Daily Visit
Jan 12 08:32:21am - Received comment upvote
Jan 13 02:36:37am -
Daily Visit
Jan 13 03:24:05am - Received comment upvote
Jan 13 06:39:01am - Received comment upvote
Jan 13 08:57:08am - Received comment upvote
Post by
43040
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nooska
Oh and for the "proof";
Screenshot 1
; achievement progress with "missing" day
Screenshot 2
; Reputation pane where a daily visit is logged for same day
The reputation pane shows dates in your local browser's time zone, but not the time zone of our server. This is as it should be, since, apart from consecutive visits, who cares about the server time zone, and there's more to rep than just the visits.
So you missed Nov 12, 2012. Here's your rep log for the surrounding days in the server time zone:
Nov 11 10:58:29am -
Daily Visit
Nov 11 11:44:36am - Upload Data
Nov 11 12:13:33pm - Report Accepted
Nov 11 01:24:26pm - Upload Data
Nov 12 11:58:11pm - Received Comment Upvote
Nov 13 02:11:29am -
Daily Visit
It appears that 2:11am in our time zone is before midnight in yours, which is why it looks to you like the rep was credited on Nov 12.
Could you recheck that now that my times are not skewed by 5 hours?
Apart from that, it doesn't make sense what you are showing me - as, if you look at the reputation pane, the screenshot also clearly shows "daily visit" for november 11th adn november 13th, respectively 1 line above and 5 lines below - so the site has registered a daily visit for all 3 consecutive days.
Apart from that, what we have been told so far is that "if have the daily visit, we have been counted for the consecutive visits achievements"
Post by
Erorus
Could you recheck that now that my times are not skewed by 5 hours?
Your time zone doesn't affect what we record, your time zone just affects what dates you see on your rep page.
Apart from that, it doesn't make sense what you are showing me - as, if you look at the reputation pane, the screenshot also clearly shows "daily visit" for november 11th adn november 13th, respectively 1 line above and 5 lines below - so the site has registered a daily visit for all 3 consecutive days.
It appears that the time zone in your screenshot is set to something like UTC-11. Here's your daily visits in our server time, in UTC-11, and what is shown on your screenshot.
CST (UTC-6)
UTC-11
Rep Page
2012/11/05 03:302012/11/04 22:302012/11/04
2012/11/06 02:332012/11/05 21:332012/11/05
2012/11/07 03:112012/11/06 22:112012/11/06
2012/11/08 03:512012/11/07 22:512012/11/07
2012/11/09 03:172012/11/08 22:172012/11/08
2012/11/10 08:552012/11/10 03:552012/11/10
2012/11/11 10:582012/11/11 05:582012/11/11
2012/11/13 02:112012/11/12 21:112012/11/12
2012/11/14 04:032012/11/13 23:032012/11/13
2012/11/15 06:512012/11/15 01:512012/11/15
2012/11/16 03:532012/11/15 22:532012/11/15
2012/11/17 06:142012/11/17 01:142012/11/17
2012/11/18 04:362012/11/17 23:362012/11/17
2012/11/19 04:102012/11/18 23:102012/11/18
Notice how your rep page misses Nov 9 and Nov 14, and shows Nov 15 and Nov 17 twice. That's because your computer's time zone is so far from our server's. We've always said, however, that our server time zone is what's used for the consecutive visit achievements.(##RESPBREAK##)2##DELIM##Erorus##DELIM##
Post by
Thestool
Hey, I would like to get this fixed to get my achievement please. I was pretty close.
This shows my entire history on the 21st and a little before and after. This has to be enough proof I was online right?
I'm one hour behind CST so the time zone difference shouldn't even matter because I always open up wowhead whenever I wake up and last I checked I woke up on the 21st.
http://i.imgur.com/Rz0gNN2.png
Warning : long image
Edit: now it's showing up, thanks so much for fixing it! I appreciate it.
Post by
CalaelenDT
@Thestool: While your screenshot shows you've been very active on Wowhead that day, it doesn't show if you were actually logged in or not. It's possible you weren't logged in (every so often I'll go to Wowhead and it'll have me logged out for some reason) and you didn't notice it.
Post by
Thestool
You see, I made sure that I knew I was online. You can see the "Wowhead Account" which only goes to that page when you try logging in. Why would I try logging in then not log on when I'm so close to this achievement?
Post by
Onmyown
Thank you, Erorus, for you work here on this. My account seems to be tracking properly now, and ultimately stayed on target. Keep up the good work- I appreciate your efforts to straighten this out!
Post by
Thestool
Thank you, Erorus, for you work here on this. My account seems to be tracking properly now, and ultimately stayed on target. Keep up the good work- I appreciate your efforts to straighten this out!
A million times this! I was pretty bummed that I lost all that progress. Thanks for fixing it.
Post by
Tethic
I don't have a link, but my Rep Page says
"Daily visit +5 on 2013/02/13"
yet I do not have credit for the day in the Day Tracker.
So you missed February 13, 2013. Here's your rep log for the surrounding days in the server's time zone:
Feb 12 10:14:39am -
Daily Visit
Feb 14 09:49:01am -
Daily Visit
Feb 15 09:50:44am -
Daily Visit
Out of curiosity, what time zone do you have set on your computer?
Erorus, I am located in the MST Zone (2 hours behind CST). My comp is set to
"UTC-07:00 Mountain Time (US & Canada)"
Post by
Nooska
I am not in UTC -11, I am in UTC +1 - which results in the same time if you ignore "am/pm" in a 12 hour clock (another reason 24h is the way to go when looking at anything international, especially computerrelated).
I can see what you are saying that nov 9th and nov 14th are not logged there - which just makes even less sense
Regardless, I'm going to ask to have that 1 day reinstated, as the information we have been given so far on this is in conflict with itself.
So far we have been told our "daily visit" sets us up, but the 2 systems you are talking about now do not agree - and at this point I cannot trust that one is correct and the other isn't.
If the achievement tracking is correct I would be missing either nov 11th, 12th or 13th. If the reputation pane is correct I should be missing nov 9th and nov 14th.
I have database proof that I was online for all 5 of those days between the 2 tracking methods you have.
And please, stop talking about timezone discrepancy - we have been told (over and over) that it is server time (midnight CST), that determines if we get a daily visit - the time shifting I've been talking about has clearly been on wowheads end, as it was specifically telling me my daily visit was 5 hours ago, no matter what hour I logged in, and it was on 2 seperate computers, before fixing itself (on the same computer that had the issue beforehand).
I understand your job, but the way you are doing this over the last few pages comes off as "we are rigth and cannot be wrong" - while you have a point in regards to bug reporting, you are also woefully wrong - that approach only works when the reportes have the same level of insight, and leads to what we in danish call "magtfuldkommenhed" (google translate fails me, and its not a term I've previously had to use in english) - the belief that the authority is right because it is the authority.
(the timezone calculation is an example of this, as "innocent" as it is - it shifts my visits by 12 hours, which does alter the login for any day where I visited in the afternoon after a morning visit the day before.)
====================================================================================
Now what I would suggest wowhead does here, is reinstate the days lost ex gratia to those that have lost them - no user has the fault here, and for something that demands you dedicate an entire year to a website, and then lose significant progress due to bugs and bugfixes respectively is not something that engenders loyalty, and to be quite frank, I've been considering whether I wanted to continue being active on the site with the percieved attitude towards this - remember, this issue only ever exists for the most dedicated users - the ones that, in general, will actually be most active in contributing what makes wowhead a site to visit.
I hope my suggestion here will be taken seriously and discussed among those in 'political' power.
Post by
Erorus
I am not in UTC -11, I am in UTC +1 - which results in the same time if you ignore "am/pm" in a 12 hour clock (another reason 24h is the way to go when looking at anything international, especially computerrelated).
I can see what you are saying that nov 9th and nov 14th are not logged there - which just makes even less sense
Regardless, I'm going to ask to have that 1 day reinstated, as the information we have been given so far on this is in conflict with itself.
So far we have been told our "daily visit" sets us up, but the 2 systems you are talking about now do not agree - and at this point I cannot trust that one is correct and the other isn't.
Ok, we'll break it down to basics. All times mentioned in this reply are in a 24h clock per your request.
There's the database table that records each day a user visits. It stores no time components. It operates at UTC-6 time zone. It says you visited on Nov 11 and Nov 13. It has no record of a visit by you on Nov 12.
There's the database table that records reputation events. It stores time components. It operates at UTC-6 time zone. It says you received "daily visit" rep on Nov 11 10:58 and Nov 13 02:11.
These two systems agree. There is no discrepancy. There was no "time shift." Recorded days were
not
lost before, after, or because of this recent fix.
If the achievement tracking is correct I would be missing either nov 11th, 12th or 13th. If the reputation pane is correct I should be missing nov 9th and nov 14th.
I have database proof that I was online for all 5 of those days between the 2 tracking methods you have.
Achievement tracking is correct, you are missing Nov 12. The dates shown in that list are not affected by timezone calcs.
The reputation pane is misleading because it shows you dates in another time zone than what our system uses.
And please, stop talking about timezone discrepancy - we have been told (over and over) that it is server time (midnight CST), that determines if we get a daily visit - the time shifting I've been talking about has clearly been on wowheads end, as it was specifically telling me my daily visit was 5 hours ago, no matter what hour I logged in, and it was on 2 seperate computers, before fixing itself (on the same computer that had the issue beforehand).
Okay, let's get technical now. We store all dates/times in CST, as you know. When we send these to your web browser, we tell Javascript the CST time, then Javascript tells you the time in your local time zone. However, we
should
tell Javascript the UTC+0 time. I will patch it so we tell it the correct time zone, so that it has a correct point of reference. This does not affect achievement tracking, it simply affects the date/time display in your browser.
edit
Okay, I double checked, and we actually tell Javascript our server time as well, so time zones should get applied correctly on the client side. No issue there.
I understand your job, but the way you are doing this over the last few pages comes off as "we are rigth and cannot be wrong" - while you have a point in regards to bug reporting, you are also woefully wrong - that approach only works when the reportes have the same level of insight, and leads to what we in danish call "magtfuldkommenhed" (google translate fails me, and its not a term I've previously had to use in english) - the belief that the authority is right because it is the authority.
I enjoy this challenge and I do not mean to offend. Explaining the details of this issue is difficult. My attitude may seem a bit cold but I try to remove any emotion from my argument to get down to the facts. (This is why I'm a developer and not in customer service, heh.) I apologize if my demeanor is upsetting. Honestly, "authority" or any other assumption of correctness is the furthest from my mind. I'm willing to be proven wrong, if I see evidence of it, but all this investigation (after the bugfix) turned up was some reputation page inconsistencies. Most of this code still isn't mine, so I have no personal stake or offense if it's wrong, I'm motivated to fix it.
Now what I would suggest wowhead does here, is reinstate the days lost ex gratia to those that have lost them - no user has the fault here, and for something that demands you dedicate an entire year to a website, and then lose significant progress due to bugs and bugfixes respectively is not something that engenders loyalty, and to be quite frank, I've been considering whether I wanted to continue being active on the site with the percieved attitude towards this - remember, this issue only ever exists for the most dedicated users - the ones that, in general, will actually be most active in contributing what makes wowhead a site to visit.
I hope my suggestion here will be taken seriously and discussed among those in 'political' power.
You sent the screenshot, and you and I investigated. The screenshot is misleading (still useful, just misleading) and I tried my best to explain exactly what is recorded in the database and how it differs from the screenshot. I'm still confident that no days were "lost", the counter was merely made more accurate to the truth.
Personally, I'm very reluctant to restore days unless I'm very sure they are owed, because days given when they are not earned are unfair to people, yourself included, who put in the effort to log in every day. However, I understand that you are upset, and as I said before, customer service isn't my specialty. I'll discuss your concerns with our community manager.(##RESPBREAK##)2##DELIM##Erorus##DELIM##
Post by
DELHunsy
My reputation has not been restored. I do not have screenshot to prove that I was online that day. I will contact feedback and just gonna let them close my account, and community will lose active member. Site is riddled with bugs, and this is not my fault.
Post by
asakawa
Hi Hunsy,
I hope you don't feel it is necessary to react in that way. We value all our users and contributors but those users who support Wowhead enough to want to get this achievement are amazing and very important to us.
As this thread gets longer it might get trickier to find the bits of info most relevant to you but I gave a brief description of the issue most people are seeing in
this post
and your consecutive visits look like they follow the pattern described with a missed day on the 21st of January.
As you can see over the previous few pages, Erorus is investigating any potential issues so if there are any further oddities they will be found. However, I think it's fair to say that our confidence in the system, now Erorus has worked on it, is quite high as is our confidence in the recorded data.
I totally understand that it's far more frustrating to find out that you missed a day a hundred days after the miss than it would have been if you had seen it the following day. That was a bug on our end and it's fair for you to feel frustrated by it. We have a robust fix in place now though, allowing users to monitor their daily visits far more easily, so I do hope you will stick with us.
Post by
Tethic
Erorus, I am located in the MST Zone (2 hours behind CST). My comp is set to
"UTC-07:00 Mountain Time (US & Canada)"
Correction, I was typing quickly and thinking Eastern Time. I am MST and 1 hour behind CST. I'm sure you made the correction mentally, just wanted to say it though.
Having said that, I have a question. In your reply you stated the following:
So you missed February 13, 2013. Here's your rep log for the surrounding days in the server's time zone:
Feb 12 10:14:39am - Daily Visit
Feb 14 09:49:01am - Daily Visit
Feb 15 09:50:44am - Daily Visit
Now, what I don't understand (and I've been trying to follow and understand this thread to the best of my ability) is how the system would register anywhere, and then in turn display it, that I logged onto the website on Feb 13 as an error when I have no other record of logging on that day which could be explained by or related to a time zone error?
I'm like Nooska and some of the others around this thread that were religiously working to gain this achievement and feel like we had habits in place to assist us in successfully completing it, so it is truly disheartening to learn that we lost our chance roughly 100 days after the fact. I think I have logged in every day since learning about this, but that is purely from habit. I honestly have no further desire to earn this achievement now.
Post by
43040
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nooska
These two systems agree. There is no discrepancy. There was no "time shift." Recorded days were
not
lost before, after, or because of this recent fix.
I have to respectfully disagree - if no recorded days were lost, then how did I suddenly lose over 100 days off my progress (going from ~2 months to ~6 months to finish the ahcievement)?
However, I understand that you are upset, and as I said before, customer service isn't my specialty. I'll discuss your concerns with our community manager.
Thank you.
Post by
margeurite
Since you've said that the system is indeed logging my daily website access, I'm anxiously waiting for the counter to display my count correctly. I went from around 274 to 84.... I'm a bit upset since I'm going for the achievement. To lose six months of progress is discouraging, to say the least!
Twice now, over the past few years that I've been using this website, I've seen my counter reset and had to start over on the achievement. No, it was not due to missing a login :) Those other times, my count was a little over 100, and I thought, "Meh, I'm gonna use the website every day anyway, so it's not a big deal. I'll get the achieve eventually."
Now, with the goal in sight, almost there, and to have it snatched away a third time.... not fun.
I'm still going to log in every day. This is my go-to site whenever I need to look something up. It'd just be nice to get the achievement acknowledging my activity. :)
Post by
NescioNetizen
The reputation pane is misleading because it shows you dates in another time zone than what our system uses.
Not trying to troll or give you guys something to fight over in your coffeebreaktime but in this forum thread :
I give up with "consecutive days"
That is honestly why we tell people to bookmark their reputation page. That way, when you go to the page, you will see if you're logged in and can quickly confirm that you received a 'Daily Visit' notation in your history. That is by far the easiest way to ensure you don't lose your consecutive visits.
P.s. I am not qqing about my days btw,i was in Germany for a couple of days and still got the expert rocketeer achievement.But i really feel the hurt for those affected by the proof that Nooska provided and hope that this clears the air in regard to any and all servertime discrepancies between the actual visits and displaying of days.
Post by
asakawa
To be fair, Sas148's reply was in response to people getting caught out by not being logged in or otherwise visiting the site without it registering the visit. That is still good advice; the rep page will still show that your visit has just registered. Erorus has explained that it isn't necessarily an ideal indicator of the precise days that were visited when looking back given the local/server difference.
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