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discussions on hit/crit/expertise
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Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
ok first of all
you OBVIOUSLY miss told them what i was reffering to
the fact that glancing blows is even shown on the table is innacurate for what i was talking about
SEVERAL TIMES in this post/discussion ive said that this was EFFECTIVE crit cap FOR YELLOW DAMAGE AGAINST BOSSES FROM BEHIND.
yellow damage can NOT glance. there IS no glancing blow on those.
THEN being BEHIND the boss REMOVES parry and block...
making the table
miss / dodge / crit / hit.
all accounts i have found state that according to blizz crit cannot exceed hit...
link elitist jerks to here and see what they say.
To hit can only be used to counter the base chance to miss (5% for one-hand users without any off-hand weapon, 9% for two-handers and 24% for dualwielders),
whereas the crit chance cannot become higher than the hit chance.
if they claim its wrong... then ask them for proof that it is WRONG. otherwise im going to believe that its true... otherwise agi would always be the BEST stat in game...
sorry but you HAVE to pay a lil more attention to what im talking about if you want to dispute it... i was referring to special attacks (yellow damage) from behind a raid boss..
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
... what i know is this... yellow attacks can NOT glance... check your recount and youll see its accurate.... all my melee attacks (in raids i have a large amt of attacks to look at) have a chance to glance and do.... since i got hit all i see on yellow attacks is dodge, hit or crit... (and the occasional block or parry when i couldnt get behind the mob for the attack.)
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
Possible, But not necessarily. Any way it goes, white damage is more complicated than yellow.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
well youve answered it only to your satisfaction...
you seriously need to take the thought of white damage out of your head.... i am not referring to that... never was and don't think i will...
all this is BASED on the idea that crit cannot exceed hit... which is listed on wowwikki... if you'd like ill repost that link... even though its only a few posts back
All the research on wowwikki and even some on elitist jerks and elsewhere still leads me to believe that there is a crit "cap" for yellow damage to a raid boss from behind... otherwise i would never ever socked str... why would ANY druid use anything other than pure agi?
i actually regemmed and geared for hit cap and some more ap since raid buffed i hit 47% crit... and ive only seen my damage improve...
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
Assuming you max out both hit and expertise ratings then the maximum potential from behinf for
white damage crits is 75%
and the maximum potential for
yellow damage crits is 100%
this would be true only assuming that crit
can
exceed hit... i will agree with it
if
that is true... but i have not found a reason for me to believe it to be true...
even so there comes a crit level where your damage output will be
better
served making your crits hit harder with more ap/str than more crit.... im at the point in crit 47% or so raid buffed where my damage goes up more with ap than with crit... so even so i think using the notion of a crit cap helps your damage cause you stack more of the ap which buffs your crits up... like in toshs method where it shows the relationship of agi/str.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Celdhyrean
even so there comes a crit level where your damage output will be
better
served making your crits hit harder with more ap/str than more crit.... im at the point in crit 47% or so raid buffed where my damage goes up more with ap than with crit... so even so i think using the notion of a crit cap helps your damage cause you stack more of the ap which buffs your crits up... like in toshs method where it shows the relationship of agi/str.Theorycraft says there is an AP/crit ratio where both contribute exactly the same to dps, but that looking at realistic gear you'll always have excess AP compared to crit, making agility the way to go.
http://druid.wikispaces.com/ToskksDPSGearMethod
The graph is outdated but since the margin is very large and there have been few changes to mecanics, it should still hold true.
Post by
ignis86
this would be true only assuming that crit
can
exceed hit... i will agree with it
if
that is true... but i have not found a reason for me to believe it to be true...
well according to the glancing blow discription on wowikki, crits replace normal hits and you can reach a point where all your stikes do nothing but crit
when i went to look at it it only seemed to back me up...
...If it exceeds 100%, it is your
critical hit chance that gets "pushed off the end" of the table.
Any Crit Rating gear added past this point will not improve your critical hit chance with white-damage melee attacks at all. This is sometimes called the "Crit cap"
you ALSO have to take to mind when looking at that table.. thats referring to white damage... which i was NOT.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
yes i did.... did you???
AGAIN you go away from my topic
my whole topic as i have said over and over is YELLOW DAMAGE... the is refering to WHITE DAMAGE.
so again stop referring to information about white damage tables.
and editing information to show your point of view is misleading...
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
see, we have conflicting things now... your wiki says that and mine says that crit cant exceed hit...
if mines right it makes the crit cap lots lower and yours higher...
either way i still am going to use my info since i cannot see a place where it says for a matter of fact from blizz that crit can exceed hit... using mine ive gotten higher damage than i was at while dropping some crit simply for more ap from str and whatnot...
basically that ends the discussion... :) thanks for having it with me.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
i interpreted it like this
if you have room for 80% on the table of either crit or hit then it divides among the two it if you have enough crit to match half... (or 40% in this scenario) if ur crit were only 20% then it would be 20% crit and 60% hit but no more than 40% crit and 40% hit since crit cant exceed the hit
Post by
Celdhyrean
Just get low hit and high crit and see the numbers you get through WWS or Recount or whatever. That's the only way you'll be certain of who's right (or try to find WWS parses for people who did the tests).
The wiki is written by people like us, there can be errors or contradictions.
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