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Rolling on Shards - Prototype System
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Post by
danroe
Fellow enchanters, aren't you tired of going an instance and be told to D/E and roll at the end, and in some cases, go away with
no
shards? Don't you feel you have rised a profession just to make others richer?
Well, i have developed a new "shard-rolling-system", and, so far, the enchanters in my server like it.
It works like this:
The enchanters have priority on shards, and they
always
get the epic shard (if there is any)
It may seem a bit confusing, so i will put some examples
Example A
I finish a Heroic and i am the only enchanter. There are 3 blue shards and 1 epic shard.
I "snag" the epic shard as a "tax" and then
everybody
(including me) rolls for the blue shards.
I may end with an epic and a blue shard, but i have a shard guaranteed.
Example B
Heroic, and i am the only enchanter again. There are 6 blue shards. I get 2 blues and everybody else gets one.
Example 3
Again, Heroic, but there are another 2 enchanters (so we are 3 in total) and we have 1 epic shard and 4 blue shards. First, we 3 enchanters roll. Highest gets epic shard, the other 2 get a blue shard. Then,
everybody
(including the enchanters) rolls for the rest 2 blue shards. Some enchanters may end with 2 shards, but it guarantees them 1 shard.
I would like other enchanters to give their opinion on this, and if they like it, try and spread this new system. For the non-enchanters, i know that they would say it is "unfair", because they will
never
get an epic shard, and they have less chances to get a blue shard.
3 reasons why it should be so:
We use the shards, you just put em on AH
edit: typos
_________________________________________________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ignore all this. I had a bad day.
Instead, what would you think if an enchanter told you to please give him 1 of the blue shards at the end. Would that still be "Fair" for you?
Post by
153604
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MikadoGG
I don't recall any problems with the in the old wow (tbc and original). Why has wotlk suddenly raisen so many problems about this? Just give everyone equal chance to roll at it, or say there's no enchanter in group, so you can snatch the blues and DE when you get away from them.
STOP BEING GREEDY FFS!
This.
Also this topic comes up nearly every day. You guys need to read through the replies from the community and get it through your heads that MOST of us (even many enchanters) will not agree with your "system." For the last time, if you don't want to "make others richer" then don't say you're an enchanter, problem solved.
We use the shards, you just put em on AH
It is
our profession
and there is no reason why
you
should benefit from it. As if we benefited from your professions, as if we rolled on mining nodes / herbs / fur / cloth found in instances
1. No. Most of us non-enchanters save shards and give them to you to enchant our gear when you advertise "your mats + tip." By this logic shouldn't all green boes go to you too since we're just going to "put them on the AH" or vendor them? But again I save greens and DE them with my enchanter alt and give the mats to enchanters to enchant my gear and help them level their profession. But of course you could never see the benefit in this, right?
2. It is *your* profession but it is *our* group. I'm not following you around when you're killing mobs outside of instances asking you to give me your drops. Why then should I pass all gear to you when I'm in the instance group just as much as you getting repair bills and putting in time and effort?
If you don't wanna make me richer, go ahead and refuse to DE and just roll greed like everyone else. All it will do is earn your group members some vendor gold and make shards all that much more expensive, so when you need to buy some you will have to spend more. Furthermore, it will ensure that enchanters get less business overall and have a harder time leveling to 450 because if people have no mats they will pass up getting their gear enchanted. Have fun with your new system. Personally I would blacklist an enchanter for just "snagging" the epic shard at the end of a run and I would ensure everyone knew he is a ninja, pure and simple.
Post by
Kramp
Considering the insane amount of money you can do with enchanting and how easy it is to simply DE everything your group dont want, I think a "thanks" after the trade is enough for me.
Post by
danroe
I don't recall any problems with the in the old wow (tbc and original). Why has wotlk suddenly raisen so many problems about this? Just give everyone equal chance to roll at it, or say there's no enchanter in group, so you can snatch the blues and DE when you get away from them.
STOP BEING GREEDY FFS!
As stated above. To learn ALL our recipees we need 114 dream shards. 114 is a L-O-T.
1. No. Most of us non-enchanters save shards and give them to you to enchant our gear when you advertise "your mats + tip." By this logic shouldn't all green boes go to you too since we're just going to "put them on the AH" or vendor them? But again I save greens and DE them with my enchanter alt and give the mats to enchanters to enchant my gear and help them level their profession. But of course you could never see the benefit in this, right?
1st: Instead, pay the enchanter.
2nd: Green BOES are not BOP. This is about Blue BOPS. And people often gives you the mats, expects the enchant and gives you a 5g tip and a pat in the back. For an enchant that can easily cost 400g
2. It is *your* profession but it is *our* group. I'm not following you around when you're killing mobs outside of instances asking you to give me your drops. Why then should I pass all gear to you when I'm in the instance group just as much as you getting repair bills and putting in time and effort?
Did you help me level enchanting up to 437? I think not. And you are not passing all gear. You won't use the gear. Don't tell me you are going to vendor a blue BOP for 3g. And in the instance, i ALSO kill mobs. It's not like i follow you doing nothing and DEing is not the only thing i do. And you go to HCs not for shards, but for emblems and gear. DEing is a plus. And again, you dont PASS ME YOUR GEAR. You give me GEAR YOU WON'T / CAN'T USE.
Considering the insane amount of money you can do with enchanting and how easy it is to simply DE everything your group dont want, I think a "thanks" after the trade is enough for me.
Tell me how you do money with enchanting when you are trying to level. And this is not about infinite dust, nor cosmic essences, it is about SHARDS wich are used to BUY FORMULAE.
And, as i stated above:
I would like other enchanters to give their opinion on this, and if they like it, try and spread this new system. For the non-enchanters, i know that they would say it is "unfair", because they will never get an epic shard, and they have less chances to get a blue shard.
i KNEW this reactions were gona happen. So next time i will refuse to DE and there will be no epic shard. Do you prefer a chance to have a blue or vendoring a &*!@ty bop blue?
The thing is that if YOU can't get richer you just won't let ME get richer. Human mind is like that, not your fault.
Post by
301202
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MikadoGG
I don't recall any problems with the in the old wow (tbc and original). Why has wotlk suddenly raisen so many problems about this? Just give everyone equal chance to roll at it, or say there's no enchanter in group, so you can snatch the blues and DE when you get away from them.
STOP BEING GREEDY FFS!
As stated above. To learn ALL our recipees we need 114 dream shards. 114 is a L-O-T.
1. No. Most of us non-enchanters save shards and give them to you to enchant our gear when you advertise "your mats + tip." By this logic shouldn't all green boes go to you too since we're just going to "put them on the AH" or vendor them? But again I save greens and DE them with my enchanter alt and give the mats to enchanters to enchant my gear and help them level their profession. But of course you could never see the benefit in this, right?
1st: Instead, pay the enchanter.
2nd: Green BOES are not BOP. This is about Blue BOPS. And people often gives you the mats, expects the enchant and gives you a 5g tip and a pat in the back. For an enchant that can easily cost 400g
2. It is *your* profession but it is *our* group. I'm not following you around when you're killing mobs outside of instances asking you to give me your drops. Why then should I pass all gear to you when I'm in the instance group just as much as you getting repair bills and putting in time and effort?
Did you help me level enchanting up to 437? I think not. And you are not passing all gear. You won't use the gear. Don't tell me you are going to vendor a blue BOP for 3g. And in the instance, i ALSO kill mobs. It's not like i follow you doing nothing and DEing is not the only thing i do. And you go to HCs not for shards, but for emblems and gear. DEing is a plus. And again, you dont PASS ME YOUR GEAR. You give me GEAR YOU WON'T / CAN'T USE.
Considering the insane amount of money you can do with enchanting and how easy it is to simply DE everything your group dont want, I think a "thanks" after the trade is enough for me.
Tell me how you do money with enchanting when you are trying to level. And this is not about infinite dust, nor cosmic essences, it is about SHARDS wich are used to BUY FORMULAE.
And, as i stated above:
I would like other enchanters to give their opinion on this, and if they like it, try and spread this new system. For the non-enchanters, i know that they would say it is "unfair", because they will never get an epic shard, and they have less chances to get a blue shard.
i KNEW this reactions were gona happen. So next time i will refuse to DE and there will be no epic shard. Do you prefer a chance to have a blue or vendoring a &*!@ty bop blue?
The thing is that if YOU can't get richer you just won't let ME get richer. Human mind is like that, not your fault.
I'm sorry but none of your arguments make logical sense. I never said enchanters don't do any work in a group: you do 1/5 of the work. Thankfully most enchanters I run with are not greedy and understand that the more shards circulate in the economy the cheaper they are and the easier it is for them to level their profession and purchase the vendor patterns.
Furthermore, I think you need to learn to read because clearly we have been talking abot bop blues/epics that aren't an upgrade for anyone, so STOP USING CAPS LOCK TO YELL AT PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE SENSE THAN YOU. Thanks.
I will repeat myself: if you just "snag" the epic shard you are a ninja and will have the reputation that befits you. If you don't want the community's opinion then don't ask your questions here. Good luck.
Post by
232266
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
chizhik
Your "system" basically means that you would like to charge your group for your services and your "fee" is either an abyss crystal and a chance to roll on dream shard or two guaranteed dream shards. This amounts to demanding 1/3 of all desirable gear that drops in a 5-man, more if some of the gear was needed by main specs. My answer would be to tell you to find another group.
In the end, shard = same piece of gear that everybody in your group has equal dibs on, including enchanter. All you're doing is slightly enhancing the value of the item. To me, the service does not carry as much value as you're placing on it, and demanding 2 out of 6 possible items goes beyond reasonable.
As an enchanter, it makes no difference to me what order things happen in:
unwanted blue drops, I DE, we roll on shard, I walk away with shard if I'm lucky
unwanted blue drops, we roll greed, I get it if I win the roll, I DE to get the same shard
Either way, I will get a shard if I'm lucky to win greed roll against other people in my group. Giving other people a chance at slightly more gold for unwanted gear by turning it into a shard for them is simply a courtesy to me.
Between shards I picked up in instances, DE'ing my own unwanted blue gear and AH, I purchased all recipes within minutes of hitting 440. It isn't very hard, just requires a bit of planning.
Post by
faia
so just because you enchanter that make you alowe to need on everything? pff /partykick
just greed roll like rest if you not happy with the one system in work
need 114 dreamshards? so? not
OUR
problem, its
YOUR
problem
welcome why we got rich and poor people
poor people are lasy and not even pick up gray and ask dumb "how to earn money?"
and rich people
work
(any one grind?)or know how
market-rate
work
and rather i met many enchanters that say roll at end but stay "quiet" about it and "forget about it" if no one say anything
Post by
301426
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
immortalone
STOP BEING GREEDY FFS!
Agree
Even if u have the proffesion and u want advantage over the other players getting the shards, u are just doing 1/5 of the work to get them. If u want it to be fair, pay the remaining 4 players 1/5 of the price of the item on AH to each of them.
Am sure u wouldnt like it so much
Sooooo skinners, miners and herbers need to pay to bc we killed those mobs for you to get to that vein or for you to skin or pick that herb..................
Post by
232266
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kramp
Rolling your face in money: the Enchanting way
1. Level enchanting to 375.
2. Check prices for infinite dust ( my server= 3.75g ) and greater cosmic essence ( 23g ).
3. Scan AH for weapons/armor above lvl 73 ( dont buy crafts, just random greens ).
4. Buy every armor under the price of 3-4 dust ( under 14g for me ) and every weapon under the price of 1 essence.
5. DE everything.
6. sell the mats.
I am respecing 6-7 times a week, got 4 gear sets enchanted/gemmed and I dont have money problems.
Post by
cudgel
Well, i have developed a new "shard-rolling-system", and, so far, the enchanters in my server like it.
It works like this:
The enchanters have priority on shards, and they
always
get the epic shard (if there is any)
Summary of above: enchanters like getting stuff without making any serious effort. Who knew?
3 reasons why it should be so:
We use the shards, you just put em on AH
The new "Shards-for-Formulae" system blizzard has established requieres us to give more than 100 shards to get all the formulae.
To summarize some of the responses:
We don't just put them on AH. We often save them for enchants. Particularly for when a nice enchanter on my friend's list logs in and advertises "free with mats".
To be clear here: you've never benefited from someone else's profession? Never had a JC cut a gem? Never had a BS make a belt buckle? Never had a LW or Tailor make a leg enchant? Never had a tailor craft you a bag? Never had an alchemist make you a potion/elixir/flask? Really? Again, for clarity:
really?
The same or similar systems are in use for JC and cooking I believe, perhaps others, I don't do ALL the professions. Blizzards goal with these systems seems to be to make it harder to level to the profession cap quickly. Note that quickly is the operative word. It doesn't prevent you from getting there
eventually
. You're just impatient.
To me, you're just being exceptionally greedy, as others have stated. If you were in my group, and you attempted to institute this system, I'd take a quick poll as to whether or not to boot you. I'm forced to imagine the vote would be 4 to 1 to boot you.
I'm am completely and emphatically against your system of "rule"-based-greed.
Post by
ZerXonE
Sooooo skinners, miners and herbers need to pay to bc we killed those mobs for you to get to that vein or for you to skin or pick that herb..................
This argument doesn't work since there's a pretty big difference between ores/leather/herbs and shards. The ores/leather/herbs can not be acquired by the group unless there's someone with the given profession in the group. Shards come from the gear which the group can already get no matter if an enchanter is present or not. If the party could have used the nodes or corpses in any way without someone to gather them, then the comparison would be valid.
So the point is that disenchanting requires something the group can already use, whereas the ores/leather/herbs doesn't serve a purpose unless someone got the required profession. This also goes for tailors who get extra cloth drops. I'm not going to tell tailors to spread the cloth around.
Enchanters who believe they should be paid to disenchant are indeed greedy. I always tip enchanters when they enchant my gear, no matter if they can gain a skill level or not, but I'm not going to pay them to take gear I can already use in some way.
Post by
256821
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Launchpad
The new "Shards-for-Formulae" system blizzard has established requieres us to give more than 100 shards to get all the formulae.
As a jewelcrafter, I laugh at your greedy @ss.
I have to do dailies for half a year to get all the recipes, wanna bet which metode is quicker?
Hint; It's yours. >_>
I thank god I haven't met selfrighteous enchanters like you in the game yet.
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MikadoGG
Hint; It's yours. >_>
Give me math if you're gonna make claims.
You wanted math? Go count the patterns that use JC daily tokens to purchase. If you count all of them plus only 4 of the dragon's eyes cuts (I was pretty modest here, since many JCs can use more than 4 cuts for their own gear), minus any dragon's eyes you might have to buy to put into your own gear. The math comes out to 186 tokens. Now guess how many months that is of doing the daily every day? Again, this is *not* counting the dragon's eyes JCs use to craft rings/necklaces or gem their own gear.
Yeah. And you need "over 100" shards to buy all your formulae, of which if you wanted to buy them you could do it in one day. But it certainly won't take you nearly as much time even if you're lazy.
People like you kind of ^&*! me off to be honest. You know you are wrong yet you come in with stupid comments like "show me math" as if you don't already know the end result. You just hope noone will want to do the math so you can feel like you won some imaginary battle.
Edit: guess I counted a couple extra tokens somewhere but the basic principle is right on.
Edit2: On my server dream shards cost 9g each right now. Sometimes I've seen stacks of them for 7-8g a piece.
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