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3.1 Discussion
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Post by
MrFredII
For those us in primarily 10 man gear this is a solid nerf. As I feared they gutted key factors for FFB then gave between 1/2 and 2/3rds of it back. I don't have any Ulduar gear yet. To get it I'll have to use the gear I already have. Not fun.
I'm also annoyed at the attitude that it is ok to punish magi that "avoided" gear with spirit. We didn't avoid gear with spirit we saved our DKP, or whatever mechanism used for gear, to compete for the gear that was best for our spec. The fact that it had no spirit is Blizzard's fault not ours. GC once said that they didn't want us to have the "best" gear and that they felt that balancing one piece of gear against another was one of the things that made the game enjoyable. Now they penalize us for doing exactly that.
Don't really believe that. Blizzards categorization of specs isn't nearly as clear-cut as that of the players.
For them, any talent combination that randomly contains 60 points in arcane is an arcane spec.
GC, and other devs, have variously indicated that they read the forums dedicated to spec optimization. Although I can't find the blue post (it was back in classic) they commented on their desire to avoid cookie cutter specs and allow more customization. There is no doubt that they fully understand how quickly new optimal specs are developed. GC has commented on the various tools that players have developed to co-optimize gear and spec for every class in the game. The scorch changes are clearly intended to reduce raid wide benefit at the expense of a specific mage spec, not only is there no compensation to the mage, but his/her personal DPS is nerfed as well until and if he/she gets access to 3.1 gear. The other thing to keep in mind is that all the devs are themselves players. If anything they are more keenly aware of spec categorization than the vast majority of the player base.
Since the warlock raid benefit is effectively free to the raid and the scorch buff is weaker and requires the raid to include a lower DPS spec, its hard to expect that there will be any raiding magi using FFB. Its also hard to see arcane-fire magi talenting scorch for the same reason.
Post by
LuisGD
I feel buffed, since all gear now grants a good amount fo spirit...
Post by
elilla
So even if the new gear favours our 53/3/11 spec more then (frost)fire, I really doubt that this was the intention during itemization.The problem is blizz has repeatedly said they want all builds/specs to be equal unless they bring something special to the table. The problem is, it's showing the exact opposite and mages are getting shoved into a standard cookie-cutter build again, where even our best spec with a debuff is lower then pet classes.
Personally I believe this to be a case of blizz not having a clue of what they're doing, or rushing ahead with changes again without seeing the full consequences. It's not like we haven't seen this behavior before either, 10%dmg tax among other things. Personally I think that sometimes the entire class review goes by 'this seems like a good idea'
*rubber stamp*
and off they go. Unless there's something really freaking special with the change to spirit it's going to be TBC allover again.
Post by
232266
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Post by
jwjsmith
Remove the Scorch spell from the game, change the Improved Scorch talent to "Insert cool name here" and make Fireball and Frostfire Bolt apply a 1% stacking crit debuff to the target, stacking 5 times at max rank. Replace Glyph of Improved Scorch with Glyph of "cool name" that makes that talent also give a passive 2-3% crit/haste/damage increase.
It's not original but I think the whole Scorch thing should go away. Do Warlocks use Searing Pain?
Post by
150866
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329682
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Post by
lorgion
Scorch is fine, it would be a lot better thou if it contributed to a buff that all buff into (warlocks, frostmages, scorch mages etc) and not just the one that manages to land the first hit etc. So a joint effort in keeping the buff up. It is kinda odd thou that everyone seems to get theirs as a bonus to another spell then from a different spell, that said thou scorch still serves a purpose when you have to kill small stuff that you don't fancy fireballing to death cause once your cast finishes the mob will probably be dead already (like skellies at Kel'thuzad, most heroic/normal 5 man trash etc etc).
The loss in crit will be noted thou but somehow I think I'll (and we all) will manage fine without it. It might actually be a larger loss to other raid members then me.
The spirit thing probably seems like a minor nerf right now but I'm sure it will even out and become better eventually with gear. It's kinda amuzing thou that they wanted Fire to be more PvPified and yet PvP gear has zero spirit on it. Go figure.
If they dont put major spirit on stuff now thou then spirit will still suck hard and from the initial gear look (ulduar) it wont become a major stat. So 40% of crap is still crap, you can polish the turd all you like it wont become golden just cause it shines.
T8 set bonus; The 4 piece seems kinda dodgy, remains to be tested. Yet another random thingy to keep an eye out for, like we don't have enough procs and s**t already. At present I'm thinking 2x7.5 2x8 instead. Wish they had sunwell:ed that so you had more options (ie bracers, boot and belt).
Post by
150866
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Post by
150866
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Post by
lorgion
If all talent trees does the same (dps, dmg, whatever) then why have 3 different once? Naturally you want them to be different. Is the only difference going to be if your little pixelblob is yellow or blue or whatever arcane was again.
Not for not but if Frostbolt start doing Fireball like damage then who is ever going to be anything but Frost or otherwise they would have to totally remake the other two trees.
Post by
1212_
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Post by
OscarDivine
The change to molten armor (and its glyph) is an interesting change, however I don't blame most mages for feeling like they're being cheated. If you're well geared in PvE 25 man epics, the change is at best a slight buff. In my case, a slight buff, bringing my net crit from glyphed molten armor from 5.0% to 5.2%
This combined with the changes to Imp Scorch/Winter's Chill is still a net nerf to our crit rate and probably the end of FFB specs staying viable, however, it does allow for an interesting synergy for TtW/Fire builds, as student of the mind will scale well with gear.
What I would have loved to see is maybe all mages receiving the spirit to crit rating change as a trainable skill while leaving molten armor well enough alone. This would certainly make spirit a "more interesting stat" as promised and help mitigate the sting of the Imp Scorch/WC nerf.
omg Caribou lives...
Post by
1212_
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Post by
120665
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Post by
nickseng
The spirit nerf still sucks for mages. I mean, we're one of the few DPS who actually had some use for spirit (Yeah, it was tiny. But it -was- there. A mage with spirit heavy gear has/had it easier in replenishment lacking fights). They tried to balance it, but the numbers are still showing we'll be going into fights with less mana. And while that's fine in a world of 2 minute boss fights, Ulduar is NOT that world. We'll need that mana back.
This is only true for one spec, and only if that spec uses glyphed Mage Armor. Fire, Frostfire and Frost will see no difference.
The replenishment buff for frost was a joke. Frost isn't raid worthy. Pure and simple. So no one cares what kind of utility it can bring, because it just won't deal the damage it should be.
Let's hope they buff it's damage in PVE before the patch is done.
The crit nerf hurts us in raiding. Mages are one of most (if not THE most) crit dependant classes in the game. Now Blizzard has decided that crit values are too high are need to tone them down. Great. But don't just ignore mages like we weren't RELYING on that crit to stay competitive.
1. Only 2 spec stacks crit, Fire and Frostfire, and even Fire values Haste over Crit.
2. Crit will always be nerfed. This is a fact, since there is a cap to the amount of crit chance you're allowed to have. Anything over it, and your in essence doubling or tripling your DPS. Mages can get over 60% crit chance in Naxx, which is very close to theoretical cap. Since gear comes with better crit in Ulduar, Blizz has to nerf crit, or risk mages DPS getting out of hand.
Granted, they could've done it more elegantly, but here's to hoping more buffs to compensate the crit loss.
Post by
150866
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120665
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79146
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150866
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