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Do we have a choice?
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Post by
Laihendi
Because the criminal chose to participate in the crime.
Factors pushed them to the choice, and then depending on their influences and their genetic code (which determines the structure of their brain), they decide one way or the other.
But they still make the decision.
Post by
TheMediator
Because the criminal chose to participate in the crime.
Factors pushed them to the choice, and then depending on their influences and their genetic code (which determines the structure of their brain), they decide one way or the other.
But they still make the decision.
Not really, the decision is made for them by their environment and brain structure. Based on those things, their brain's system of assessing the best option is different.
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
You have a choice, but it doesn't matter because under the circumstances there's only one choice you would make, which is the one you make.
Which is exactly what I am trying to say, which means that we really have no choice.
According to this, he didn't have a choice...
Post by
Laihendi
Even if he doesn't have a choice, if he's stealing or killing or other things like that, he's damaging society. Putting criminals in jail keeps them from doing more harm.
Post by
ASHelmy
This is all fine and good, I understand the
need
for punishment, however I can't see how fair it is if we really have no choice
For the overall betterment of society, even if just in a perceived way?
A criminal is a free radical that must be suppressed so as to not threaten the society at large.
If punishment seems to work, that's what we'll do.
...Eh?
Then it's not really fair, is it?
Because the criminal chose to participate in the crime.
Factors pushed them to the choice, and then depending on their influences and their genetic code (which determines the structure of their brain), they decide one way or the other.
But they still make the decision.
Not really, the decision is made for them by their environment and brain structure. Based on those things, their brain's system of assessing the best option is different.
Exactly what I am trying to say.
Post by
ASHelmy
Even if he doesn't have a choice, if he's stealing or killing or other things like that, he's damaging society. Putting criminals in jail keeps them from doing more harm.
But then it's not really fair, is it?
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Laihendi
It's not fair for the murderer? Maybe it's not fair for the innocent people who he would kill if he wasn't in prison.
Post by
TheMediator
Because the criminal chose to participate in the crime.
Here's the deal. You have options A B and C. Your brain ranks these options, and B is the best option, A is the second best, and C is the worst. Your brain goes with B. How your brain ranked these options is based on how you perceived how things work, what you're taught, how your brain translates certain morals, etc. etc. For another person A might be ranked higher. For them A is the best option and for the other person its B. That's why its hard for someone to look in and say that X person made the wrong choice, because the way they judge various options is different. That's why you need to try to get inside someone's head before you say how "bad" someone is.
Post by
ASHelmy
It's not fair for the murderer? Maybe it's not fair for the innocent people who he would kill if he wasn't in prison.
But why? the criminal just followed down the path laid down for him, he did nothing wrong! Which leads me to think that we, in some form or the other, have a choice. How? I have no idea...
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
It's not fair for the murderer? Maybe it's not fair for the innocent people who he would kill if he wasn't in prison.
But why? the criminal just followed down the path laid down for him, he did nothing wrong! Which leads me to think that we, in some form or the other, have a choice. How? I have no idea...
Life isn't fair. Some people will die as a result of what they will do. Its unfortunate but that's the way the world works.
Post by
Laihendi
It's not fair for the murderer? Maybe it's not fair for the innocent people who he would kill if he wasn't in prison.
But why? the criminal just followed down the path laid down for him, he did nothing wrong! Which leads me to think that we, in some form or the other, have a choice. How? I have no idea...
He did do wrong. He's being put in prison/jail to avoid further damage.
Post by
ASHelmy
It's not fair for the murderer? Maybe it's not fair for the innocent people who he would kill if he wasn't in prison.
But why? the criminal just followed down the path laid down for him, he did nothing wrong! Which leads me to think that we, in some form or the other, have a choice. How? I have no idea...
Life isn't fair. Some people will die as a result of what they will do. Its unfortunate but that's the way the world works.
Actually, I happen to think that life IS quite fair, but that is not the point.
Post by
ASHelmy
It's not fair for the murderer? Maybe it's not fair for the innocent people who he would kill if he wasn't in prison.
But why? the criminal just followed down the path laid down for him, he did nothing wrong! Which leads me to think that we, in some form or the other, have a choice. How? I have no idea...
He did do wrong. He's being put in prison/jail to avoid further damage.
How can you claim that he did wrong if he had no other possible choice? But I agree that he needs to be stopped from doing any further damage.
Post by
Laihendi
Tell the starving Africans that life is fair.
He DID have a choice. He was directly influenced by all the related events into deciding to take part in criminal activity, but he still made the decision.
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
How can you claim that he did wrong if he had no other possible choice?
Don't look at it as Wrong or Right.
Seriously. Terms like right and wrong belong no where near discussions of ethics. Only what has a higher value on various ethical scales.
Post by
Skyfire
So, what do you guys think? Do we have the choice? or are we just puppets in the hands of the world around us?
An interesting question, for which you can turn to the philosopher Augustine (later recognized as a Saint by the Catholic church).
On Free Choice of the Will
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