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Do we have a choice?
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Post by
Skyfire
I think you just typed random numbers you sneaky bastard you.
Or I could tell you that I have a copy of "Theories of Human Nature" arranged by Donald Abel, where those are the chapters which were selected by Abel.
Post by
Lusky
I think you just typed random numbers you sneaky bastard you.
Or I could tell you that I have a copy of "Theories of Human Nature" arranged by Donald Abel, where those are the chapters which were selected by Abel.
You bore me sometimes, MamaSky.
I come on here as a cure to my insomnia and give me something to do while I mourn the loss of my sleep, and you give me the "Theories of Human Nature."
Post by
Slimda
Do we have free will? Depends on what you classify as free will.
Personally, I believe we have free will in a certain extent. We cannot, say, stop our heart with our minds, but we can stop our leg from moving. Most people would say that "if I wanted, I could go over there!", but most of them won't bother, because it serves no purpose.
Post by
81603
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skyfire
Maybe you should read what I had wrote instead of skimming for something that you can provide another person's arguement for. Free will as we define it in philosophy-the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces-can't be compatible with an all powerful and all knowing being.
And this is an argument? You can either read what he had to write or say that you didn't want to read it. If you don't want to argue with it, fine by me, but I think it shows that you are afraid to do so, or that you completely disagree with him but don't care to explain your reasoning, or that you are of the tl;dr mentality (forgive me if I missed an option; you may simply want others' opinions and their own skills at rhetoric to be shown).
It's honestly rude (to me!) to presume that I meant for his arguments to serve as my own. This debate is not one that I intend to engage in as of now, but rather when I have some time to do so, and I only linked the text because I figured that if I was reading it as classwork that I might share what I had read with the rest of the participants here (especially ASHelmy). It creates a discussion point and allows people to focus what they're talking about, especially with the likes of those who would take the topic off on a tangent (talking to you, Laihendi, because I know you're reading this).
Post by
Haxzor
UPDATE YOUR FACES THREAD!
I will eat your free will!
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
81603
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
Wow, loads of interesting posts to reply too.
@lahendi :
a.Yes, I meant without them as in, they are no longer alive.
b. (@ wazu too I guess) God is loving and caring, but he gave us free will, which means the free will to do bad things. All those horrible things probably balance out with other thing, creating the world we live in. The world we live in is so precises, that even the smallest of changes could lead to a dramatically different existence, which leads me to my next point.
@ wazu: Yes, I suppose I was thinking a bit about chaos then, since what I meant that any choice we make is the effect of past and present events and conditions, and not random, which means that we have no choice, really. And as far as I am concerned, God just created the universe, and sat back. Whether he knew what would happen or not, this is irrelevant at the moment.
Post by
Morril
You know you have succeeded as a human when you cna manipulate the will of others around you > : )
Post by
Slimda
You know you have succeeded as a human when you cna manipulate the will of others around you > : )
Easier than what one might believe. :-)
Post by
Random0098
So, free will is an illusion... But it's a nice fluffy illusion that's good enough for us!
Yeah, sure. everything that has happened or will happen has a causal link to the past. All of our decisions are based on who we are, which in turn is based on our experiences and chemical makup. BUT who cares? I'm still doing the choosing right now. I can give a sweet bugger all that I'm only choosing something because I scraped my knee in the 3rd grade.
We do have free will - It's a superficial free will that doesn't hold up to inspection, but I sure as heck aren't going to inpect it.
Post by
81603
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
So, free will is an illusion... But it's a nice fluffy illusion that's good enough for us!
Yeah, sure. everything that has happened or will happen has a causal link to the past. All of our decisions are based on who we are, which in turn is based on our experiences and chemical makup. BUT who cares? I'm still doing the choosing right now. I can give a sweet bugger all that I'm only choosing something because I scraped my knee in the 3rd grade.
We do have free will - It's a superficial free will that doesn't hold up to inspection, but I sure as heck aren't going to inpect it.
Exactly. Even when the choice is already made for them, people feel a lot better when they think they're in control.
Post by
81603
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GoGoGodzilla
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
b. (@ wazu too I guess) God is loving and caring, but he gave us free will, which means the free will to do bad things. All those horrible things probably balance out with other thing, creating the world we live in. The world we live in is so precises, that even the smallest of changes could lead to a dramatically different existence, which leads me to my next point.
@ wazu: Yes, I suppose I was thinking a bit about chaos then, since what I meant that any choice we make is the effect of past and present events and conditions, and not random, which means that we have no choice, really. And as far as I am concerned,
God just created the universe, and sat back
. Whether he knew what would happen or not, this is irrelevant at the moment.
"God just created the universe an sat back", this would be nice/true if it corresponded with the "divinely inspired" texts about him. The holy bible and many other texts depict god as
all knowing and all powerful
this is what makes him god and this is also what makes it impossible for him to not affect free will. Let me explain this yet again because the point has not completely registered apparently:
Assuming god exists...
God knows everything you are going to do long before you do it(if time applied to god).
God has the power to change what your going to do before you have a choice.
Therefor god dictates your actions, be it sitting back or not he controls your future. It's HIS choice to decide the actions YOU take. It's like quantum mechanics, by observing an elcetron you force it to take a path.(See Collapse of Wave function)
Simply put, if you believe god exists as the only known religious texts say he does then you believe free will does not exist. But if you don't believe god exists then free will is entirely logical. The only other thing that can effect choice is the past which does not hold as much sway over your actions and choices as a god would.
Let me conclude by stating that I have nothing against Christianity, I think it's moral teachings and values are superb and I would seek to instill any offspring I have with those values. But in the arguement for free will humanity benefits more from a lack of supreme being such as the Christian god.
If I know that something is going to happen, that doesn't mean that I did it, or even affected it. If I have the power to change something, that also doesn't mean that I made that thing happen.
Post by
Laihendi
That's a pretty good answer.
What about people who are living in absolutely terrible conditions that they were forced into? These people are forced to suffer their entire lives, and that has absolutely nothing to do with their free will.
Do a google image search for agent orange. Look at how a generation of Vietnamese had to suffer when they didn't even exist yet when the agent orange was used. God wanted that to be able to happen?
God wants genocide to be able to happen? The list goes on.
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