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Legalizing marijuana?
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Post by
Monday
Wait, were you talking to me or Orranis?
Post by
Orranis
Yeah, I was also confused. I don't actually think it's a willpower thing...
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I disagree. I do fine at uni the day after a night of smoking, however if I'm hungover I can't go to lectures (too loud) or practicals (too bright).
You've inadvertently proven my point. You have successfully demonstrated an example of someone who would attend work (or uni) after smoking, when you wouldn't do so after drinking (in fact, you might avoid drinking if you know you need to go to work the next day, so you'll smoke to get your kicks instead). Thank you.
Some of those points seem odd to me. Calling "Slight loss of appetite" a Marijuana withdrawal symptom seems like calling "Bacteria growth" an Antibiotic withdrawal symptom. Marijuana is used to treat low appetite and trouble sleeping.
Strawman, considering that everything else in that list that you don't have an issue with still applies.
Marijuana is the most commonly used illegal drug in the US, that number of people suddenly being removed from the category "criminals" is certainly going to be significant. Notice how I said drug crime and not drug-related crime? That means I'm talking about people being arrested for possession/distribution/growing and not "Some guy got mugged so somebody could buy crack".
I was referring to drug-related crime. Drug crime, in and of itself, doesn't affect the economy, and is thus an irrelevant point in your original argument.
Actually, 2 out of your 4 points about helping the economy do absolutely nothing at all.
Please explain how it's a baseless assumption that people with addictive personalities and self-destructive tendencies are likely to find a way to do it.
It's a baseless assumption because there will be people who drink and don't smoke (e.g. donnymurph), and people who are ok smoking in circumstances when they wouldn't drink (e.g. you). They're two different activities. Same reason why not all cigarette smokers are alcoholics.
Post by
Squishalot
Wait, were you talking to me or Orranis?
Yeah, I was also confused. I don't actually think it's a willpower thing...
Talking to both of you, but mainly Orranis. Your point on willpower and mental illness suggested that you think it's a willpower thing to get over addiction. It's not necessarily.
Yes because I base my argument on experience. I know addiction, I know withdrawal, I have not experienced either from marijuana in 3 years of smoking.
Denial is the first stage...
No, really. If you're still smoking, by definition, you won't have withdrawal problems. Either that, or you're not smoking enough to have withdrawal problems, just like I'm not addicted nor withdrawn from drinking from the once/twice a month cases I'm obliged to have a glass at dinner events.
Post by
Monday
So can anybody who's got drugs destroying their life, if you think about it. Now I have a bad feeling this is going to sink into freewill vs. determinism, but I believe that anybody who doesn't have the willpower to stop them from destroying themselves could be considered mentally ill. I guess it depends on your definition.
Missed this.
When I say mentally ill, I mean has a physical condition with the brain (anorexia is shown to be connected to the brain and your genetics).
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Furthermore I said I'm capable of working after a night of smoking and your point was that there'd be lower productivity if marijuana was legalised. As you said: "you might avoid drinking if you know you need to go to work the next day, so you'll smoke to get your kicks instead". So if there are people who do currently go to work with hangovers who (like me) don't get them from weed, productivity could rise. N'est-ce pas?
What makes you think that people who go to work with hangovers will change their habits just because weed is available?
If you can demonstrate that, across the population, the day after a night smoking will have no ill effects on productivity, I'd believe you. But most of the (properly conducted) research studies out there suggest otherwise, and demonstrate slower cognitive processes up to 24 hours after smoking. Being 'fine' and being at 100% are two different things.
"Not refuting every point presented" != Strawman. However accusing someone of a logical fallacy as a means of avoiding addressing their rebuttal is.
You refuted individual points. The lack of rebuttal on the rest implies that you're accepting those. That's not strawman, that's me attempting to score 'debate points' for the rest.
Never experienced this from marijuana, have from other substances though.
Psych research says that this is a physiological reaction. Whether you perceive it or not from your usage doesn't take away from the fact it happens.
Seeing as marijuana is a muscle relaxant, feeling uncomfortable after an extended period of relaxation is unsurprising and is akin to ceasing a dose of an actual drug as I mentioned in the previous post. Seeing as marijuana cures headaches for me I'm tempted to say the same of that but it doesn't for everybody so I can't be sure.
See above comment on physiological reactions. The feeling after withdrawing from marijuana is a worse state than you would have been had you never taken anything for it in the first place.
* slow thinking, talking
* stoned-like abstract thinking, impatience with or annoyance at linear thinking
Not sure if you didn't get around to responding to these? Or if that's just an ironic statement :P
Oh, so all Police and federal law enforcement officers are volunteers and don't use any government funds and lawyers and judges who prosecute criminals are volunteers too? Here I was thinking that money came from the public via taxes, well I'll be damned.
So by reducing drug crime, all these people will be out of a job, and that helps the economy, amiright?
No really, what's your point?
You missed the other point: You can get it now, very simply. Making it legal only increases the availability of it.
The fact that it's illegal adds a cost to its procurement (i.e. risk that you get caught and jailed). Making it legal only reduces its cost relatively, allowing people who previously thought that going to jail is too expensive to access it.
I had a 8 month break from it in 2009 and a 4 month break over Christmas, that's plenty of time for withdrawal to kick in in both cases.
"You're not smoking enough to have withdrawal problems."
I can go without alcohol for 8 months and not have withdrawal problems. By your argument, that means alcohol isn't addictive.
If I didn't smoke enough to get addicted, I question whether anyone on my income level could.
How much did you smoke, pray tell?
Post by
438256
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't think the government should have any say in what you can and can't do to your own body so long as you don't hurt anyone.
Read it in context - donny and I were discussing that earlier. I fully agree with that statement, except that the existence of welfare means that you screwing up your own life means other people have to pay for you. By definition, that means that you're 'hurting' others.
You can sum up my position as follows:
1. It's ok for people to screw up their lives as long as there's no welfare system for those who do.
2. We need to have a welfare system to be an attractive, developed nation that encourages good people to migrate and/or stay.
3. Therefore, it's not ok for people to screw up their lives, because we're required to have the welfare system.
It doesn't matter how they screw up their lives, be it through gambling, drinking, smoking cigarettes / pot or attempted suicide. If we have a welfare state, we should be aiming to reduce the damage that they can do to themselves, because it costs too much to the rest of the population otherwise.Okay, how about you put a tax on the sale of marijuana that goes directly into welfare for drug users?
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
438256
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
wolfeyoung
For me, I believe that pot is less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol. I believe that it is less harmful than gambling.
I feel that if you took a person that smoked pot every day of their life and compared them to a person that ate McDonalds every OTHER day of their life, the pothead would be ten-times healthier in every respect (physical and mental).
Of all the harmful stuff out there that a person can get involved in, pot ranks at the bottom end.
Edit: a comment on the withdraw issue. I feel that pot does have withdraw issues, BUT so does nearly anything else you do a lot. People that drink soda pop everyday will feel a form of withdraw if they go a while without a drink. The notion of withdraw is very subjective. However, in comparing pot "withdraw" to say, crack-cocaine withdraw, pot is nowhere even in the ball park.
Post by
Orranis
So can anybody who's got drugs destroying their life, if you think about it. Now I have a bad feeling this is going to sink into freewill vs. determinism, but I believe that anybody who doesn't have the willpower to stop them from destroying themselves could be considered mentally ill. I guess it depends on your definition.
Missed this.
When I say mentally ill, I mean has a physical condition with the brain (anorexia is shown to be connected to the brain and your genetics).
Obesity and Diabetes are VERY heavily based in your genes.
Also, every single thought that goes through your head has been shown to be connected to your brain, the desire for McRibs among them.
Post by
Monday
So can anybody who's got drugs destroying their life, if you think about it. Now I have a bad feeling this is going to sink into freewill vs. determinism, but I believe that anybody who doesn't have the willpower to stop them from destroying themselves could be considered mentally ill. I guess it depends on your definition.
Missed this.
When I say mentally ill, I mean has a physical condition with the brain (anorexia is shown to be connected to the brain and your genetics).
Obesity and Diabetes are VERY heavily based in your genes.
Also, every single thought that goes through your head has been shown to be connected to your brain, the desire for McRibs among them.
/facepalm.
---WHOOSH----->
*your head*
Post by
Orranis
So can anybody who's got drugs destroying their life, if you think about it. Now I have a bad feeling this is going to sink into freewill vs. determinism, but I believe that anybody who doesn't have the willpower to stop them from destroying themselves could be considered mentally ill. I guess it depends on your definition.
Missed this.
When I say mentally ill, I mean has a physical condition with the brain (anorexia is shown to be connected to the brain and your genetics).
Obesity and Diabetes are VERY heavily based in your genes.
Also, every single thought that goes through your head has been shown to be connected to your brain, the desire for McRibs among them.
/facepalm.
---WHOOSH----->
*your head*
The whoosh over my head just wooshed over my head. What are you trying to argue?
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Diabetes wasn't necessarily what I was getting at. I posted about Anorexia specifically because it is based on a literal physical brain defect. Obesity is in genes, however with enough willpower and the right diet one could keep their weight down.
However, once anorexia sets in, it's
hard
to get over. You might say: "Just use more willpower." Anorexia can't just be overcome like that however.
I don't even remember what I was arguing about.
Post by
HoleofArt
did the same thing with pot, it's called Super High Me and it rocks.
YES
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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