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Blood & Armor Penetration
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Post by
synthetique
I'm a level 76 Blood DK. I've sacrificed all other stats for Arp. I wear green lvl 70+ items instead of lvl 76 blues to stay around ~55% armor penetration.
When I change a piece for a "better" one with no Arp, I notice a hefty decrease in DPS. Like yesterday. I got a new helmet that had 80 more attack power and a bit more crit, but I lost almost 6% Arp. I thought it would be an upgrade with the +80 AP. That's a lot of AP. But no.. my dps went down slightly.
So now i wonder how much Arp weighs in comparison to the other stats.
I was looking at the stat weights on Wowhead and noticed that Arp is worth less than Crit. Isn't that a bit outdated? I've been searching EJ and all over the intarwebs for stats and theorycraft, but I can't find anything reliable or up to date.
If you know a thread or got some info, please help me figure it out.
Post by
Aleanos
Being below level 80 can really lead to obscured values.
Also define "slight" decrease, and when did you measure this? This could simply be a question of RGN.
Arp is good for blood, but hit (before cap) and Expertise (before cap) is better, so is Strength and crit (depending on gear levels).
i.e. Hit > Exper > Str > critt > Arp
Since you're at 55% arp I'm guessing all your other stats are suffering from this, gearing up isn't about having a 100% focus on one stat but rather a spread distribution, forming an equilibrium sortof.
Post by
341986
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
synthetique
Being below level 80 can really lead to obscured values.
Also define "slight" decrease, and when did you measure this? This could simply be a question of RGN.
Arp is good for blood, but hit (before cap) and Expertise (before cap) is better, so is Strength and crit (depending on gear levels).
i.e. Hit > Exper > Str > critt > Arp
Since you're at 55% arp I'm guessing all your other stats are suffering from this, gearing up isn't about having a 100% focus on one stat but rather a spread distribution, forming an equilibrium sortof.
I have about 5% hit and even more expertise. So I'm not that badly geared.
The slight difference was very noticeable for me at this moment since i regularly hit in the lower 1300's, and i drop to upper 1200's when i change the head piece. =)
I get a couple misses and dodges, but hitting harder makes up for it. A miss on a strike is just a deat coil less, and that hits for crap anyways.
I have an 80 Blood DK on another server but I retired him because I wanted to play with my friends. He's blue geared from heroics, with a blue hc weapon. ~8% hit and good expertise, 3500 AP but absolutely no Arp. This DK is only doing about 300-400 more dps than my lvl 76 in an optimal 5-man setting.
I am very confused now. I also thought that I needed a little bit of everything. Later on, I figured that Str and Arp > all other stats. But now.. 6% Arp owns 80 AP?
It's really hard to gear up when I can't figure out the stat weights. :\
Post by
Aleanos
At lower levels rating offered by gear has a much higher % conversion, and quest rewards from the early 70's doesn't really improve until ~75 or so.
The slight difference was very noticeable for me at this moment since i regularly hit in the lower 1300's, and i drop to upper 1200's when i change the head piece.
Sure it's not just the damage range of your weapon playing tricks on you? =P
Also one of the reasons Hit and Expertise are so valuable to DK's is that if we miss a strike it messes up/delays our entire rotation ==> alot less dps
About your 80 DK only doing slightly more, due to the inflated stats of pre-80 items, it's fully doable for, say a lvl 76 dk, to pull ~2k dps.
All in all I'd say rgn is playing tricks with you :)
Got some data to offer instead? It would be highly beneficial :)
Post by
synthetique
Also one of the reasons Hit and Expertise are so valuable to DK's is that if we miss a strike it messes up/delays our entire rotation ==> alot less dps
About your 80 DK only doing slightly more, due to the inflated stats of pre-80 items, it's fully doable for, say a lvl 76 dk, to pull ~2k dps.
All in all I'd say rgn is playing tricks with you :)
Got some data to offer instead? It would be highly beneficial :)
It could be RNG messing with me. But i get this "feeling" that i get weaker. 4k crits become 3.8k and Blood having lots of procs makes it hard to get a grip on it.
My armory link. Unfortunately I don't have my preferred gear on, since I logged out in a hurry.
I'll do a wws log later. My gf just woke up and she wants to play Super Smash. =)
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dentarg&n=Rokmok
Thanks for the help so far, and see you later.
Post by
Aleanos
Well if you get this "feeling" that you're doing slihtly less dps then it's not a matter of gear, but simple Psychology :)
If you're under a predisposition that a certain "thing" or something in a certain "way" would yield, in this case, more dps then you are inclined to pay more attention to the higher values when testing that type of gear out and unconsciously ´denying´ all the high values when testing the other type of gear =P
See Dissonance theory (Festinger, 1957) for an alternative approach.
Hehe sorry about that I'm revising for exams atm :)
I'll do a wws log later. My gf just woke up and she wants to play Super Smash. =)
Nice :)
Post by
240715
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
Found a stat weighing comparison
Stat (rating) Unholy Blood Frost
1 AP 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000
1STR 2.4847 2.5570 2.3650
1HIT 2.4748 2.6609 2.4046
1APR 0.5447 1.0456 0.7628
1EXP 1.3914 1.7023 1.2453
1CRT 1.1240 1.1453 1.1894
1HASTE 0.6214 0.5640 0.4978
This is from a couple of months however so it may be outdated, but it should still provide a decent picture on how good stats are for the different specs :)
Post by
240715
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
synthetique
At 75 ArP outweighed Str. Now I'm 77 and I'm starting to see Strength getting better. I think I'll change to my other pieces at 78 when the values from ArP rating isn't as inflated.
I didn't do a wws log btw. I was questing a lot and all the different mob types would have messed it up.
I wish we had a math expert with great knowledge of the game mechanics here. I could do the math, but I know little about the rest. If we only had some numbers.. :\
Post by
synthetique
Ok I found the calculation.
It seems that the cap is kinda fluid. This is the lvl 80 calculation.
penetrationcap = ( targetarmor + ( 400 + 85 * targetlevel + 4.5 * 85 * ( targetlevel - 59 ))) / 3
A lvl 80 warrior mob has 9729 armor.
(9729 + (400 + 85 * 80 + 4.5 * 85 * (80 - 59))) / 3 = 8320,5
The game then chooses the lesser value of cap and armor.
penetrationcap (8320.5) < targetarmor (9729)
If i have 50% ArP then: 8320.5 * 0.5 = 4160.25
Effective armor on target is: 9729 - 4160.25 = 5568.75
This target went from 38.9% to 26.7% mitigation. I think 9729 armor is a bit low though. :P
The weight of Strength goes up for every ArP you get. How much..? I'll try to keep both very high.
Post by
slasher0161
Perhaps try a quick browse of the theory crafting board? I know this has shocked me how much arp has picked up in value and i will be sure to investigate this further once i finish my math c, maybe even do some tests of my own. (if i bother testing i will be sure to post a spread sheet or something of my results =) )
Post by
darkdog
Thing is scaling at 70 in northrend gear i had over 35% crit not even stacking it i then upgraded alot of pieces over 70-80 but ended up with 20% crit. 70-74 i did't love much crit each level then at 75 i started to lose around 1% and at 78-80 i was losing around 2% per level so by the time you get to 80 that arp will be like 20% :(
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