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I need help placing one talent point.
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Post by
ignayshus
For a raid healer, choose between the following options:
1. Lightwell
2. 1% healing (+100 hp on gheal/renew, half that on the rest)
3. 48mp5
4. 38mp5 with an added 25% crit chance on PoH every 3 minutes.
This is the
build
in question.
edit:
Forget all that, it's an even simpler question.
Would you rather have 45mp5 or 45 spellpower?
Or would you trade those stats for Lightwell?
Post by
Elrael
I wonder how you got those numbers. ^^
But isn't Blessed Resilience effective healing or in other words increasing the coefficients? I never understand the special wording and all other talents use different terms. ("Amount healing increased" or "Additional healing from bonus healing")
I wouldn't take Blessed Resilience anyways in that kind of build but personal choices are personal. Chances are Inner Focus is the best option. HC is a hard to use talent as pure raid healer and Lightwell is hard to use as dps. (Durrr clicking is hard.)
Post by
karlusdavius
lots of changes i would make
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbhZcxtzfMqih0suAo:0NmzMV
you now have 3 points to spend. Inspiration is lack luster for holy raid healing. Its only really useful for tanks and holy paladins and disc's have that covered.
so you can now put 3 points into EH, or put 3 points into BR for more effective healing overall. BR looks good
Post by
ignayshus
#2
I let Rawr do the calculation, but my renews and gheal hit for about 10,350. Adding one point in BR gives me about another 100 hp on those spells. The rest of my spells heal for 50-65% of that.
#3
Pretty easy. Raid buffed, my OOFSR regen is equivalent to 750mp5.
The floor of my uptime with Holy Conc is about 35% based on WWS on boss fights, usually it's 5-10% better but I wanted to be conservative.
750mp5 (OOFSR) * .18 (third point of Holy Conc) * .35 (uptime) = about 48mp5
#4
Again being conservative I felt an 8 minute fight length was appropriate, so I get 2 casts of Inner Focus used on Prayer of Healing (though I assumed I spent no points in Healing prayers not sure why though). I have a feeling that using it once on Divine Hymn would balance that out though.
1854 (unadjusted spell cost) * 2 = 3709
3709 / 480seconds = 7.73 mps
7.73 * 5 = 39mp5
Post by
Elrael
lots of changes i would make
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbhZcxtzfMqih0suAo:0NmzMV
you now have 3 points to spend. Inspiration is lack luster for holy raid healing. Its only really useful for tanks and holy paladins and disc's have that covered.
so you can now put 3 points into EH, or put 3 points into BR for more effective healing overall. BR looks good
Trough in the category lower level tier Inspiration is probably on of the better raid healing talents. Better then Improved Healing anyways. Most of your changes don't even make sense for the spec the OP is aiming for, A Ulduar pure raid healing spec with some extra Utility.
Edit: Great calculation there. And depending on your mana problems I still stand with my point with BR being a weak talent.
Post by
ignayshus
lots of changes i would make
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbhZcxtzfMqih0suAo:0NmzMV
you now have 3 points to spend. Inspiration is lack luster for holy raid healing. Its only really useful for tanks and holy paladins and disc's have that covered.
so you can now put 3 points into EH, or put 3 points into BR for more effective healing overall. BR looks good
You misunderstand, I wasn't asking for a critique on the build, just an opinion on the relative value of a single talent point.
However you do realize you taken a lot tank healing talents for a raid healing build. It's especially odd, considering few of those points were necessary as fillers (I take Divine Fury and Inspiration, because I have 7 filler points I HAVE to spend to get to 20, so I took the most valuable talent points should I be forced to become the tank healer in an emergency)
Also, from a throughput stand point BR is point for point better than Empowered Healing for someone that doesn't use Gheal much.
Personally, I think I'm counting out the fourth option as it wont scale up with my gear, while #3 will.
So it becomes a question of 48mp5 or what effectively works out to 45 spell power. Or does lightwell trump all?
Post by
ignayshus
Edit: Great calculation there. And depending on your mana problems I still stand with my point with BR being a weak talent.
I agree, but it's stronger throughput than EH for a raid healer and Holy Conc is more regen for a renew style raid healer than Inner Focus and it scales (though I grant that using it on one PoH and one Divine Hymn would likely level the regen gap at my current gear level).
Post by
ignayshus
Looking at your blog I see that Mp5 is a stronger stat than spellpower, which i could "feel" but not quantify.
Solid blog you got going there btw, though would it kill you to add a splash of color ;)
Post by
Elrael
However you do realize you taken a lot tank healing talents for a raid healing build. It's especially odd, considering few of those points were necessary as fillers (I take Divine Fury and Inspiration, because I have 7 filler points I HAVE to spend to get to 20, so I took the most valuable talent points should I be forced to become the tank healer in an emergency)
There is also a strange option. A option many healers frown on. A option that helps with raid healing. A option that prevents you from dieing.
It's called Spellwarding!
Still Inspiration shouldn't feel that "forced" What if you CoH the melee and you crit on the tank? Can't hurt unless you got a Disc priest/Resto shaman healing the tank, always.
Edit: Great calculation there. And depending on your mana problems I still stand with my point with BR being a weak talent.
I agree, but it's stronger throughput than EH for a raid healer and Holy Conc is more regen for a renew style raid healer than Inner Focus and it scales (though I grant that using it on one PoH and one Divine Hymn would likely level the regen gap at my current gear level).
What I meant is unless you got good mana regen your best option is taking Lightwell, Inner Focus
and
Holy Concentration by taking points from BR.
Looking at your blog I see that Mp5 is a stronger stat than spellpower, which i could "feel" but not quantify.
Solid blog you got going there btw, though would it kill you to add a splash of color ;)
It's unholy for a reason. =p Maybe a nice banner or so.
And mathematic speaking 1 mp5 offers more then 1 spellpower in the long run. Spellpower can be stronger on heavy spells, like PoH, but heavy spells cost more mana so mp5 is also stronger then.
The point is if you could choose between 100 spellpower and 100mp5 what would you choose?
Most people edge to Mp5, but the correct answer is "It depends." In the end we are aiming for a balance. And talents build the unique character of your role and builds the bases of stat scaling. Mana regen is easier to get from talents.
But there is something called a "Regen cap". At some point you will have more regen incoming then outgoing. Taking to much regen talents can lead to "wasted" talents once you get the better gear. but if you need those talents to get the better gear take them and don't doubt it.
It the end it boils down to "Your choice depending on what you need." You got mana problems take the mp5 talent, you don't got mana troubles take the spellpower. If at a later stadium (End Ulduar) you got the feeling you don't need mana regen talents respec, adjust or prepare for the next raid.
Owh, and Lightwell feels semi overpowered. It offers 50k-55k healing every 3 minutes for a small amount of 300 mana, even for aoe spell with cooldown it's still a lot.
If
(big if)
used
(clicking is hard)
properly
(thinking is harder).
If you are going to train your guild to use Lightwell tell them they can use Lightwell while running, while casting spells, while being on the GCD. It helps, a lot.
Post by
karlusdavius
if your doing ulduar then i doubt you wanna try and train your guild to use lightwell when they already have much to learn. I still think its a wasted point.
It all depends on your playstyle
Also, from a throughput stand point BR is point for point better than Empowered Healing for someone that doesn't use Gheal much. but you use flash heal?
Most of your changes don't even make sense for the spec the OP is aiming for, A Ulduar pure raid healing spec with some extra Utility.
How does it "not make sense"? The OP is asking for a raid healing spec, that's what i gave him. so please do explain in your infinite wisdom
if you have problems with mana, go with mp5, spellpower can be made up elsewhere
Post by
Elrael
Most of your changes don't even make sense for the spec the OP is aiming for, A Ulduar pure raid healing spec with some extra Utility.
How does it "not make sense"? The OP is asking for a raid healing spec, that's what i gave him. so please do explain in your infinite wisdom
Why drop Healing Focus and Inspiration for Improved Healing/One point in Divine Fury? It's a raid healing spec. Inspiration may not be that great at least there is a small chance (depending on raid) that you have a rare proc on the tank with CoH.
Dropping points in Body and Soul, which is clearly one of the main elementals in this spec and without any reason you advise not to take it. That really making no sense. It's like dropping CoH.
Taking points in Empowered Healing over other talents. Flash Heals is a filler, a spell we use between our aoe to get Holy Concentration or to build up Serendipity for the next AoE damage. The extra healing is minor and doesn't add a lot to overall healing.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
karlusdavius
Dropping points in Body and Soul, which is clearly one of the main elementals in this spec and without any reason you advise not to take it. That really making no sense. It's like dropping CoH.
Body and Soul is a PvP talent. That's all there is to it.
what he said. i thought it was well known, obviously not. Oh, and saying its like dropping CoH is BS.
Why drop Healing Focus and Inspiration for Improved Healing/One point in Divine Fury? It's a raid healing spec. Inspiration may not be that great at least there is a small chance (depending on raid) that you have a rare proc on the tank with CoH.
Thats just it.
RARE
. A shaman has just as much chance of proccing it as you. Even if the tank doesn't get it, its not gonna make a great deal of difference if you have a *rare* proc on the tank. Your a raid healer. you heal the raid therefor that is your primary concern.
and healing Focus? dont make me rip your balls off now.
Taking points in Empowered Healing over other talents. Flash Heals is a filler, a spell we use between our aoe to get Holy Concentration or to build up Serendipity for the next AoE damage. The extra healing is minor and doesn't add a lot to overall healing.
but its SOMETHING! if you want BR for more throughput on everything then get it. after all you do have 3 points left to spend int hat build i posted
Post by
Elrael
Dropping points in Body and Soul, which is clearly one of the main elementals in this spec and without any reason you advise not to take it. That really making no sense. It's like dropping CoH.Body and Soul is a PvP talent. That's all there is to it.
what he said. i thought it was well known, obviously not. Oh, and saying its like dropping CoH is BS.
News Flash, Body and Soul is one the greatest
Ulduar
talents if you
choose
for that
play style
. Welcome in 3.1 guys.
At least 10 bosses in Ulduar have a moment someone needs to run, you can choose for a spec to assist those people effective preventing a lot of damage. It's
play style choice
, but it becomes a main elemental of
your play style
.
Just like CoH becomes a main elemental of your raid healing.
Why drop Healing Focus and Inspiration for Improved Healing/One point in Divine Fury? It's a raid healing spec. Inspiration may not be that great at least there is a small chance (depending on raid) that you have a rare proc on the tank with CoH.
Thats just it.
RARE
. A shaman has just as much chance of proccing it as you. Even if the tank doesn't get it, its not gonna make a great deal of difference if you have a *rare* proc on the tank. Your a raid healer. you heal the raid therefor that is your primary concern.
and healing Focus? dont make me rip your balls off now.
Okay so we can choose between 0mp5 (Because Improved Healing doesn't get used )or 1% chance to give a armor buff to a tank.
0mp5 or 1% chance to increase the tank armor
Thats really a hard choice...
And Healing Focus doesn't hurt. It's not like you can spend those points better.
Edit: Even when there is a Disc Priest/Shammy on the tank Inspiration is still a better options then Improved Healing.
Improved Healing adds
NOTHING
. Where Inspiration has a rare chance to offer something, it's close to nothing, but still more then nothing. You are probably better off with Spellwarding then Improved Healing (Or Inspiration?).
Also for raid healing Divine Fury adds nothing too, it's just at some point we need to consider one filler over another filler and everyone seems to shoo away every attempt at Spellwarding anyways. :<
And if you are not following it. We are talking about a
pure
(which means zero tank healing)
aoe
(which means raid healing)
utility
(which means helping other players)
spec
(which means specialization)
A pure aoe utility spec. Which is not a advisable build, but it's choice of an active raider. And especially with disc as dual spec going for all out aoe healing with holy is great, it makes you very flexible powerful healer.
And you gotta love utility or you gotta hate it. But don't hate people for taking utility talents.
Taking points in Empowered Healing over other talents. Flash Heals is a filler, a spell we use between our aoe to get Holy Concentration or to build up Serendipity for the next AoE damage. The extra healing is minor and doesn't add a lot to overall healing.
but its SOMETHING! if you want BR for more throughput on everything then get it. after all you do have 3 points left to spend int hat build i posted
It's not worth taking over other talents points. Especially not in a build like this one.
Post by
karlusdavius
News Flash, Body and Soul is one the greatest Ulduar talents if you choose for that play style. Welcome in 3.1 guys.
At least 10 bosses in Ulduar have a moment someone needs to run, you can choose for a spec to assist those people effective preventing a lot of damage. It's play style choice, but it becomes a main elemental of your play style.
Gratz for #$%^ing the Disc priest off who can mitigate a shed load more damage with his shield than you.
Gratz for wasting 1, 2 or 3 talent points in a talent just for a speed buff that could be moot before you even push the button thanks for WS debuff.
Gratz on spending 3 points for 1/2 the buff that the talent gives.
And Healing Focus doesn't hurt. It's not like you can spend those points better.
But you can? i just did?
You are probably better off with Spellwarding then Improved Healing
Then put it in spellwarding?
We are talking about a pure (which means zero tank healing) aoe (which means raid healing) utility (which means helping other players) spec (which means specialization)
Thanks for giving me a 4 year olds explanation of aoe raid healing. Inspiration is not utility as it only greatly effects a tank. therefor 2 of those points are wasted because it will be once in a blue moon you hit the tank with a heal (if your tank healers are good).
don't hate people for taking utility talents.
Not once have i mentioned hate. Stick to whats on the browser, not in your mind.
It's not worth taking over other talents points. Especially not in a build like this one.
Made me laugh considering you think B&S is worth 3 points.
Post by
Elrael
Made me laugh considering you think B&S is worth 3 points.
Poor Misguided Fool. :< You are a sheep from the wrong flock, can't help with that.
I will cry at night for you, when no one can hear or see me. ;)
Edit: That was a
song
(. Hmhm
You're just a poor misguided fool
Who thinks they know what I should do
A line for me and a line for you
I lose my right to a point of view
(Remember the time when melee dps decided that minor speed on boots was a DPS increase?)
P.S. let's @#$% Divine Fury too, then we end with:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bZfEz0b
Where to put the last two points in?
Improved Healing? Worthless
Divine Fury? Worthless
Inspiration? Used once on a blue moon.
I love Divine Fury for soloing, but yeah it doesn't matter. Nothing matters in those first 20 points. Can't we skip them? :<
Post by
ignayshus
Look I'm not interested in talking about builds in this thread.
If you'd like make another thread and I can go point by point on why the build you listed isn't a strong choice.
If you'd like to have a discussion on the uses of Body & Soul from the pov of a raid healer that runs with a Disc priest in the group, then make a thread and I'd be happy to participate. I've certainly had experience there.
For now this is a simple question.
45mp5, 45 spellpower, or lightwell for a raid healer that has had no mana problems so far (doing vezax for the first time tomorrow)?
Post by
Elrael
Look I'm not interested in talking about builds in this thread.
If you'd like make another thread and I can go point by point on why the build you listed isn't a strong choice.
If you'd like to have a discussion on the uses of Body & Soul from the pov of a raid healer that runs with a Disc priest in the group, then make a thread and I'd be happy to participate. I've certainly had experience there.
For now this is a simple question.
45mp5, 45 spellpower, or lightwell for a raid healer that has had no mana problems so far (doing vezax for the first time tomorrow)?
I already answered that, pfffft. And so did other people.
Sorry for the BS war (double acronym ftw)
if you have problems with mana, go with mp5, spellpower can be made up elsewhere
It the end it boils down to "Your choice depending on what you need." You got mana problems take the mp5 talent, you don't got mana troubles take the spellpower. If at a later stadium (End Ulduar) you got the feeling you don't need mana regen talents respec, adjust or prepare for the next raid.
And Lightwell is very raid depending, if your raid can use it it's the best option.
Edit: owh General Vezax mr no mana regen boss. The mp5 doesn't matter on him anyways. Spellpower can matter.
Also raid healing is not really the Generals problems unless your raid exist of retard that can't move. Then use Body and Soul and they will move!
General is mostly avoiding stuff, tank healing and retard healing. Almost any form of mana regen doesn't work anyways. And it doesn't have "a lot" room for Lightwell. Al trough it's fun on that green stuff when 10 mana users are standing in it at the same time.
Post by
karlusdavius
Made me laugh considering you think B&S is worth 3 points.
Poor Misguided Fool. :< You are a sheep from the wrong flock, can't help with that.
I will cry at night for you, when no one can hear or see me. ;)
Edit: That was a
song
(. Hmhm
You're just a poor misguided fool
Who thinks they know what I should do
A line for me and a line for you
I lose my right to a point of view
(Remember the time when melee dps decided that minor speed on boots was a DPS increase?)
P.S. let's @#$% Divine Fury too, then we end with:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bZfEz0b
Where to put the last two points in?
Improved Healing? Worthless
Divine Fury? Worthless
Inspiration? Used once on a blue moon.
I love Divine Fury for soloing, but yeah it doesn't matter. Nothing matters in those first 20 points. Can't we skip them? :<
you finally show your age. Pathetic.
Op question is answered. lets leave this thread alone.
Post by
Elrael
Made me laugh considering you think B&S is worth 3 points.
Poor Misguided Fool. :< You are a sheep from the wrong flock, can't help with that.
I will cry at night for you, when no one can hear or see me. ;)
Edit: That was a
song
(. Hmhm
You're just a poor misguided fool
Who thinks they know what I should do
A line for me and a line for you
I lose my right to a point of view
(Remember the time when melee dps decided that minor speed on boots was a DPS increase?)
P.S. let's @#$% Divine Fury too, then we end with:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bZfEz0b
Where to put the last two points in?
Improved Healing? Worthless
Divine Fury? Worthless
Inspiration? Used once on a blue moon.
I love Divine Fury for soloing, but yeah it doesn't matter. Nothing matters in those first 20 points. Can't we skip them? :<
you finally show your age. Pathetic.
Op question is answered. lets leave this thread alone.
Sorry, this
Next Thread
drained my seriousness.
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