Post by Magnerz
All you said seems to be 100% correct Roadrunner, whilst it may his his 2nd BiS, that shouldnt stop you rolling on a decent tanking cloak (unless you feel so inclined). Avoidance is definately better than block but also bear in mind that reaching the 102.4% through pure avoidance stats (parry/dodge/chance to be missed) is nigh on - if not totally - impossible, due to diminishing returns.
His qualm may be that he can't roll on any tanking itmes which have block (or parry for that matter) on them and therefore he has a smaller potentail loot table (considering amulets, rings, trinkets and cloaks here). It really depends on your loot rulings considering things like this, imo its fair game for the both of you.
P.S. If you look at the T8 set blizz seem to be moving pallies into more block style tanks than avoidance favouring tanks (see T8 shoulders
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46177 for example when compared to T7/T7.5
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39642), not exactly sure why this is, maybe one of the better players can enlighten me :)
Post by Dunsinane
Hi
Damn :P, just realized that I logged out last night in my retri spec&gear and I can't give you a link to my armory as it is mostly useless atm. Anyway my main spec is prot and I'm 4/5 Val + Last Laugh + Wall of Terror and some other goodies. ATM I have like 24.2x dodge, 17.2x parry and 21.2x block. Can't remember the block value, but I dont think that matters so much.
Anyway coming ti my question. Last night we were raiding in Ulduar and
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45319 dropped. I'm OT in this guild where I am now, and the MT, who is a druid says that this is 2nd BiS for him. I say the same, since I value more avoidance then block, and he starts arguing that I should check the spreadsheets for my class. I'm like ?, anyway I let him have the cloak and move on. But I'm still confused about this, as he said that I should try to get more block rating/value on my items. Him being a druid, I'm not really sure that he knows what he's talking about. I mean, last week we went into Naxx25 just to get some extra gear for the ones who needed upgrades and to make "The dedicated few". And on Patch, I was taking the hatefulls along with the other OT. When those hit me, I was blocking like 2k dmg and taking another 22k in. So in my mind, it is better to be able to dodge and take 0 damage, then block 2k and "suck in" 22k.
So, can anyone please clarify this for me?
I know that dodge and parry are subject to DR after a certain value (don't know those values though) and that block rating isn't, but still I'd rather stack defense then block.
Tanking SPREADSHEETS as gospel for gear selection? Epic fail. Any BiS claim inherently assumes conditions that don't automatically apply.
Tanking is not about a single set of gear. A high block rating/block value set is very nice for fast-hitting and soft-hitting mobs. A ton of health is useful for those bosses that suddenly blast you for 30k magic damage. A high avoidance set is nice for slow-hitting, high physical damage encounters. High effective health is usually best for progression.
The best tanks have always geared to the encounter at hand.
If your druid guildie were to make the argument that you should have a block capped set with significant block value, he would have a point. That's something a paladin is able to do better than a druid - deal with swarms of soft-hitting mobs. He can't gear as effectively for that as you can, and by gathering such a set you can shine in that role.
Saying that you shouldn't gather an avoidance set, an effective health set, or any other set that may apply to a given fight is, bluntly, ignorant. In Ulduar, even most of the trash has the ability to smack you for Patchwerk-like numbers (albeit at a much slower pace). Block value grows less useful in that environment.
(as for DR, any parry, dodge, or defense that is neither inherent to your character nor gained through talents is subject to diminishing returns)
P.S. If you look at the T8 set blizz seem to be moving pallies into more block style tanks than avoidance favouring tanks (see T8 shoulders
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46177 for example when compared to T7/T7.5
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39642), not exactly sure why this is, maybe one of the better players can enlighten me :)
They aren't. Comparing a single item out of a set to a single item out of another set doesn't equate to the whole set shifting in a specific direction.
Tier 7.5 ProtTier 8.5 ProtFrom T 7.5 to T 8.5:
- Block rating declines
- Block Value declines
- Expertise and hit rating are removed entirely
- Defense rating increases slightly
- Dodge rating doubles
- Parry rating more than triples
- Socket bonuses are focused on stamina
Post by zoomie
P.S. If you look at the T8 set blizz seem to be moving pallies into more block style tanks than avoidance favouring tanks (see T8 shoulders
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46177 for example when compared to T7/T7.5
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39642), not exactly sure why this is, maybe one of the better players can enlighten me :)
You really have to look at the over all set. The T7 set had a ton of block stats on the chest and legs, the shoulders were pure avoidance. Now T8 is backwards. The shoulders are block stats but the chest and legs are both pure avoidance stats.
Post by Achloryn
Hi
Damn :P, just realized that I logged out last night in my retri spec&gear and I can't give you a link to my armory as it is mostly useless atm. Anyway my main spec is prot and I'm 4/5 Val + Last Laugh + Wall of Terror and some other goodies. ATM I have like 24.2x dodge, 17.2x parry and 21.2x block. Can't remember the block value, but I dont think that matters so much.
Anyway coming ti my question. Last night we were raiding in Ulduar and
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45319 dropped. I'm OT in this guild where I am now, and the MT, who is a druid says that this is 2nd BiS for him. I say the same, since I value more avoidance then block, and he starts arguing that I should check the spreadsheets for my class. I'm like ?, anyway I let him have the cloak and move on. But I'm still confused about this, as he said that I should try to get more block rating/value on my items. Him being a druid, I'm not really sure that he knows what he's talking about. I mean, last week we went into Naxx25 just to get some extra gear for the ones who needed upgrades and to make "The dedicated few". And on Patch, I was taking the hatefulls along with the other OT. When those hit me, I was blocking like 2k dmg and taking another 22k in. So in my mind, it is better to be able to dodge and take 0 damage, then block 2k and "suck in" 22k.
So, can anyone please clarify this for me?
I know that dodge and parry are subject to DR after a certain value (don't know those values though) and that block rating isn't, but still I'd rather stack defense then block.
as has already been stated... that cloak is a definite tanking cloak.. It very well may be 2nd BiS for druids (and DKs since they're avoidance tanks as well) but an upgrade is an upgrade is an upgrade. The druid, in the most strictest sense of things, is correct as something with block rating will benefit you a lot more than something with just avoidance stats.. but it's still an improvement for you and you shouldn't let him bully you into not rolling.