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Has Min/Maxing ruined the class?
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Post by
Aderother
I'm sure this has been posted/asked before, but I feel that it's time to bring it up again. I've been playing WoW as a Mage since late 2005, well before TBC was released. Due to an extended business trip, I was pretty much unable to play from about August 06 to October 07. It wasn't until after that when I was able to finally get my mage to max level. I got into a decent raiding guild because of my wife, who had been playing the entire time I was gone. They wouldn't let me into ANY raids, however, unless I specced as one of the cookie-cutter specs at the time. I understand the whole idea of trying to do the most damage possible, however, all the theorycrafting and min/maxing has eliminated any sort of true character customization. There are 3 or 4 accepted raid specs and if you aren't using one of them, no one will even give you the time of day. I don't practice what I preach, however, as I'm using one of the cookie-cutter specs myself, so that I can progress in the game.
My basic point, however, is that I feel that our class has almost been ruined by people that stare at spreadsheets all day (or at least they seem to). Sometimes I wonder if any of these people even play the game.
Post by
220531
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Post by
Achloryn
I'm sure this has been posted/asked before, but I feel that it's time to bring it up again. I've been playing WoW as a Mage since late 2005, well before TBC was released. Due to an extended business trip, I was pretty much unable to play from about August 06 to October 07. It wasn't until after that when I was able to finally get my mage to max level. I got into a decent raiding guild because of my wife, who had been playing the entire time I was gone. They wouldn't let me into ANY raids, however, unless I specced as one of the cookie-cutter specs at the time. I understand the whole idea of trying to do the most damage possible, however, all the theorycrafting and min/maxing has eliminated any sort of true character customization. There are 3 or 4 accepted raid specs and if you aren't using one of them, no one will even give you the time of day. I don't practice what I preach, however, as I'm using one of the cookie-cutter specs myself, so that I can progress in the game.
My basic point, however, is that I feel that our class has almost been ruined by people that stare at spreadsheets all day (or at least they seem to). Sometimes I wonder if any of these people even play the game.
no.. I think what ruined the game even more was back in the days of MC or AQ where you HAD to be frost to raid otherwise you wouldn't do any damage at all to the mobs.. at least nowadays there ARE 3 different choice specs to do the most damage, and you can bring any of those specs to any endgame material right now and do quite well.. back then if you were a fire mage going to molten core you'd be laughed right off the server for being such an idjit.. lol I think Blizzard has since learned from that mistake and not made such limitations since that affects not only mages, but warlocks, and to a much lesser extent shamans also
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160231
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Post by
313523
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Post by
Aderother
I have to admit that right now is probably the best time to play WoW for the flexibility it provides for raid specs and such. I just feel that some people over-analyze the game to the point where it's no longer fun. I've been reading these forums for a while now, and I've noticed that certain people seem to think that their way is the only way to play, and I feel that attitude causes some of the newer, more impressionable players a bit less enjoyment of the game. I didn't start reading any sort of forum until I reached level 70, and wanted to find out exactly why I was expected to be a certain build in order to progress. I pretty much did my own thing until that point, and I think I enjoyed the game a bit more. I've created a bunch of characters trying to recapture that enjoyment, but knowing what's expected of me at max level jades me a bit. I now tend to not stray too far away from the tried and true. Don't get me wrong; I still enjoy playing the game, but I feel that I would enjoy it more if I were better able to customize my character to my own playstyle and not catch a bunch of flak for having an oddball spec or something.
Post by
220531
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Post by
Aderother
edit: Best way to put it: people ruined the game. "I've got to be the best all the time!111one" ruined the game. When having fun playing with friends got replaced by fierce competition for loot, server kill order, evaluating your life based on skill in the game - ruined the game
This right here pretty much sums it up, now that someone has actually said it. Unfortunately, on my server, the number of people that like playing the way I do are few and far between. I also have to admit that I'm a bit hypocritcal, since I was in a group with a fellow mage the other day, looked at his spec and wondered, "WTH is he thinking? 61 points in fire?" but I guess that's because it's how everyone else seems to be right now. I've become a product of the environment.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
I'm fiercely competitive, and I actually enjoy min-maxing, because it genuinely interests me in thinking of how and why I can do better than other mages around me.
PvP is where it's at though!
Post by
Achloryn
I have to admit that right now is probably the best time to play WoW for the flexibility it provides for raid specs and such. I just feel that some people over-analyze the game to the point where it's no longer fun. I've been reading these forums for a while now, and I've noticed that certain people seem to think that their way is the only way to play, and I feel that attitude causes some of the newer, more impressionable players a bit less enjoyment of the game. I didn't start reading any sort of forum until I reached level 70, and wanted to find out exactly why I was expected to be a certain build in order to progress. I pretty much did my own thing until that point, and I think I enjoyed the game a bit more. I've created a bunch of characters trying to recapture that enjoyment, but knowing what's expected of me at max level jades me a bit. I now tend to not stray too far away from the tried and true. Don't get me wrong; I still enjoy playing the game, but I feel that I would enjoy it more if I were better able to customize my character to my own playstyle and not catch a bunch of flak for having an oddball spec or something.
i understand what you're saying to a point, but to me (And to a lot of other people i'm sure) part of the fun of endgame material is knowing you're doing the best that you can. For mages, that's blowing the other DPS out of the water. For tanks, that's getting your HP as high as possible, getting your avoidance as high as possible, and keeping your aggro as high as possible. For healers, that's making sure the tanks and the rest of the group alive as much as possible with as little overhealing as possible..
of course, some people may have different aspects of what they enjoy about the game. Just being in an end game raid may be enough for some of them regardless of if they're the best at what they do or not. Some people may enjoy pvping more than others. Some people may enjoy going and ganking lowbie alliance/horde members. it really just depends.The depth of things that WoW allows is part of what makes it so popular.There's something for everyone to enjoy.
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218363
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150866
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79146
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Post by
nickseng
I don't know. There's just something about
knowing
you could be doing better and
still
not doing it.
Then again, good and bad are arbitrary. But people usually play games to... you know, beat the evil guy. Find the treasure. Get to the sacred realm.
I think a more concise reason people play games are to have fun.
For
most
people, their idea of fun involves finding the treasure and beating the bad guys. Which is fine and dandy, but it would be a fallacy to assume everyone finds it fun.
For me, I love figuring out how things work, even more than beating the bad guys. It's one of the reasons why I have tons and tons of alts lying around. :)
Post by
250116
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Post by
160231
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Post by
Aderother
I think the elitist attitude stems from people that just want to kill everything as fast as possible. It seems that once you know the right builds and rotations, anything else seems underwhelming. As I said in an earlier post, I've even caught myself looking at people's specs and wondering what they were thinking. I guess what really irritates me are the people that feel that if you don't have the BiS gear, you are a bad player, which I'm sure most of the people that read this realize that you have to get your gear somewhere. The Great Gear Fairy isn't going to magically mail you full T8 and Ulduar gear just because you're supposed to be a good player. Even the people that have all the BiS gear now had to start somewhere. My own gear is crap right now because my schedule doesn't allow for me to play enough to run the raids and heroics I need to get better gear. This doesn't mean I'm a bad player, it just means that I haven't been able to do what I know that I need to in order to get the gear I need to go any further in the game. (Call me a carebear if you must, but I'm not a fan of PvP, so everything I do has a PvE slant on it.)
Post by
Telrasha
I don't think min/maxing has ruined the game...back in the day, and I mean waaaay back in the day, i was frost raiding ZG and everyone said I was crazy until they saw the dmg meters and saw me out dpsing the fire mages, who were pretty good with there spec.
What i personally think ruined the game, is Blizzard making it waaay to easy to get epics/exalted reputation/
BG Honor Points
. I loved the looooong grinds to get exalted with Argent Dawn, Zandalar Tribe, ect. Or back in the day when you actually had to hit the enemy player with an attack/spell to get honor points and count towards the pvp rank system. I remember when it actually meant something to have epic gear...back when if you had more then 3 or 4 epics you were a God.
I think it's way to easy to get epic gear. And I miss those days and I know it will never be the same as it was, because Blizz has to change the way things are to fit the masses, the masses' opinion matters more then the few and i'm one of the few that has to deal with it...oh well.
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