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Orloxq- you asked about spirit
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Post by
irharry
what i cant understand is these 2
Warlock_T8_00_41_30 Int=0.27 Spi=0.77 SP=1.23 Crit=0.69 Haste=1.32
Warlock_T8_03_52_16 Int=0.35 Spi=1.32 SP=1.18 Crit=0.34 Haste=0.73
Can someone explain?
Ok i probably understand that faster casts are better than bigger casts notice SP<Haste
But how can spirit counts more than spellpower? Spi>SP
I cant post at elitistjerk. Anyone can explain?
One of the main reasons that spirit is rated higher for deep demo than any other spec is because the spec uses the glyph of life tap. This scales spirit up a lot, as basically every point is another 0.2 "rating" in this system. To be honest, the difference is higher than I would have expected still, so there may be another contributing factor as well.
These numbers were pulled directly from Zaks thread in EJ, for anyone that doesnt know where they came from.
Zaks numbers are usually really good I've found, but I must confess that the spirit numbers look.... weird, and I really don't see how he has managed to get such a low rating for haste in the deep demo builds.
Post by
Kangi
For the 3/52/16 build, spirit does the following things:
59% (Fel Armor + Demonic Aegis + Glyph of Life Tap (assuming you LT every 20 seconds)) of it is turned into spell power.
It increases the amount of health converted in Life Tap.
It gives health and mana generation over time (practically useless).
Though spirit becomes an important stat with all of these things, it shouldn't have more of a dps contribute than spell power. ("Spi=1.32 SP=1.18")
Overall, I have no idea why it is rated so high.
Post by
irharry
I can't link simcrafts from work, but I just ran a few numbers on my laptop, and they dont match Zak's. Im getting spirit at .99 for the deep demo build, and haste at .92. They look a little closer to what I expected, its pretty cool to see spirit overtaking haste!
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irharry
That was my first thought as well Gore, but Zak's 3/52/16 is the version without DP.
Post by
asakawa
this is something that i raised in a previous patch's simcraft results but this is an even more pronounced anomaly. i think that the point i raised at that time was that there was a marked difference between the 0/56/15 and 3/52/16 results.
it can't simply be GoLT or demonic aegis that give this strange result since all builds now take GoLT and several take demonic aegis. i wonder if it could be a pet scaling thing... if so i'm not sure that the simcraft prediction would be reflected in game. the warlock side of simcraft is incredibly good in comparison to some of the other classes but... i wonder.
Post by
asakawa
double post >.<
so, it looks like it comes down to the mana usage of each build and whether there is enough spirit for the LT every 20 seconds (that we're doing for the GoLT buff) to also be enough to sustain mana through the 5 minute fight that simcraft simulates.
it seems that the high spirit number
is something
of an anomaly which we wouldn't necessarily see if we were modelling 4 minute fights (or other similarly arbitrary variables) since the high spirit factor seems to bottom out fairly quickly. sadly the extra research on this was done using 0/28/43 so it would take some work with simcraft to run similar tests with deep demo but what is clear is that the higher value of spirit has a definite soft cap where mana is self sustaining and any extra spirit beyond that point gets the standard bonus which we see via the fel armour/GoLT conversion.
at least that's how i read it. do you think i'm on track with that assumption irharry?
it might be worth running tests to find that soft cap for each spec. perhaps we could organise a few posters to run different parses for the various specs to try and pin it down.
Post by
irharry
yeah, i read something very similar to that on EJ asa, and it makes sense.
I must confess though, that while I see it making a difference, I'm struggling to understand how it makes
so much
of a difference. By stacking enough spirit to allow life tapping every 20 seconds to maintain you through till the end of the 5 min parse, you keep your life tap buff (~150-180 spellpower) up the entire time. This is significant, and will then feedback through DP as well. So that accounts for increasing spirits "rating" from .7-.75 in builds without GoLT, up to ~1.0
Roughly 1/3 of spirits total rating here has to come from the mana preservation, and maybe I'm being dense, but I don't understand it. The GoLT uptime has been accounted for, so the balance has to be from GCD's saved (not spell power from life tapping). Each point of spirit is 3 extra mana per life tap, which over the course of a 5 minute fight is roughly 45 mana (assuming life tapping every 20 secs or so). Given that a geared lock is returning 3500-4000 mana per tap, that means it takes about 70-80 spirit to "save" one lifetap (one GCD) per parse. Maybe I'm doing the math wrongf somewhere, but im cmoing up with some pretty negligible benefits....
Post by
328142
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irharry
"there are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't." I had to read this twice, very cool :P
Post by
asakawa
so the balance has to be from GCD's saved (not spell power from life tapping).
yeah exactly. it's a huge difference coming from a couple of GCDs. it makes me wonder if the surprising figure is the result of the specific parameters of the simulation itself. unlike things like crits that will vary a lot and be averaged out by the massive number of iterations done, mana usage will be pretty constant for all iterations of the test. i wonder if, basically, the 5 minute tests lead to an extra GCD use that a 4'50" test or 5'20" test might not encounter giving us our inflated number.
the problem is that we can't replicate zak's numbers with our own tests so we can't run a few variations to test this >.<
Post by
328142
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
simcraft does model replenishment along with BoWisdom/mana totems.
here's the mana report from an old sim result i have:
initial_mana=21175.6
judgement_of_wisdom=2943.1
life_tap=32282.4
mana_spring=4094.0
mp5_regen=5225.5
replenishment=14847.0
water_elemental=4574.3
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