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UH Tank Qs: mitigation, CE, AMZ?
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Post by
Kurtosis
I've previously only tanked as Frost, though I leveled all the way to 80 as UH. Now just playing around with some UH tank builds, which I've never used, trying learn more about it.
Have read a bunch of the recent threads here on this topic, and the stickies, and am looking at a few builds, would appreciate any feedback.
Build objectives: Max AoE dmg/threat, max single target dmg/threat, max mitigation.
Build requirements: 5/5/5, plus Bladed Armor, Black Ice, and Rage of Rivendare. This means giving up Improved Icy Touch's 6% haste debuff, since you can't have all 3 of those talents with it. Worth it?
1.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xxZ0ghctczgcV0coux:ModMm0
2.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xxZ0ghcxczghVocoux:ModMm0
Same as #1, but give up Reaping and CE for AMZ. Normally when I play UH, I find Reaping lets me get in an additional SS per rotation, so is this a must-have talent, or optional?
And anyone use CE for AoE threat - 5s cd, but 40rp?
3.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xxZ0ghcxczgIMocoux:ModMm0
Same as #2, but take 3pts out of Desecration and into Reaping?
Opinions? I feel like I'm at the point where these variations are now fight-specific, rather than cookie-cutter, and I just have to respec slightly if the fight requires it.
Finally, how is UH mitigation vs Frost? It seems to come down to BS vs UA, and AMZ vs. Frigid Dreadplate.
And a note on glyphs: BS & D&D seem like nobrainers, but if there's something better I'm all ears. Not sure about the RS glyph though.
Also, I never see people using the Blood Tap glyph, it seems everyone gets the Raise Dead one instead. I prefer the former b/c Corpse Dust is only a few silver once you get Revered/Exalted with Ebon Blade, and I macro Blood Tap into every attack ability so it always casts as soon as the cd is up, hence the need for that glyph.
Post by
Aleanos
Well first off, in all of your builds you're missing out on Vicious strikes, it's a great tps increasing talent as your primary attack will be SS.
Secondly, dont be afraid to pick points from Necrosis, it's a "stand alone" talent, offering a slight tps increase, but there's far better choices.
Reaping is one of the best talents in Unholy, enabling you to squeeze one extra SS in your upcoming rotation is great. (also useful to refresh diseases should you miss to renew them)
Corpse Explosion is a great tool for aoe tps in trash pulls and perfect for 5 mans. In single target fights it looses some of it's value however. But I'd definitely reccomend it for 5 mans.
Taking your approach (and ignoring IIT) perhaps something down
these lines
would be optimal?
Sacrificed Necrosis for VS and Rav. Dead (adds parry, though minor, and overall threat).
Also moved points from Necrosis to CE and 2-h wep spec.
Now depending on your physical vs magical tps ratio you ought to shift points around to max out 2-h wep spec, I find 2% phys damage better than 1% "now and then" from Desecration.
Post by
Aleanos
In terms of avoidance Frost is the superior one, hands down, IFP, UA, longer IBF, FD etc.
Unholy offers great aoe tps and increased add pickup (UB), and the most anti-magic of all the trees (AMZ and MS). Unholy's BS is nice, but due to the nerfs it's now an "ok" CD, it is great however because it scales very good with avoidance (increasing it's uptime greatly).
Dont get me wrong here, it's perfectly possible to tank as unholy and do a great job at it, but each tree has it's own niche, and from a tanking pov frost offers the most avoidance, unholy with anit magic and improved aoe, and blood with a "last stand", increased HP and single target tps.
The RS glyph can be replaced with the SS glyph depeding on preference/purpose. The DnD glyph can also be arguably replaced with UB (better for single targets/certain aoe bits) or Dark death (further improving your main single target rp dump.
Now about you using BT at every possible CD, I strongly advice against it. For unholy it's great when you need to push that extra Blood boil or Blood strike, it's also
ideal
for refreshing Bone shield. So dont go popping it whenever :)
Small side note, the 6% slower attack speed offered by IIT is very minor, and in a raid setting (where it really counts) odds are you'll have a warrior/paladin for TC or JotJ
Post by
Aleanos
By the way, what do you plan on using the build for?
All-round or specifically raiding/5-mans?
Post by
Kurtosis
Thanks Aleanos. I just spent some time playing around with those builds in Strat trying to get a feel for them, and find I don't like them much. Compared to
Frost 15/51/5
they feel way too RP-starved, even with Dirge. B/t UB, CE, RS, and DC I feel like I never have the RP to do what I need. At least with Frost, there's just FS (do you ever use RS when Frost tanking?)
Gonna stick with Frost for all-around tanking, and UH for farming ore and pvp (OaPH + Orc + stun resist meta). Was finding it hard to squeeze in enough macros for two different main tree builds, but just figured it out. WTB more macro slots, please, Bliz.
ow about you using BT at every possible CD, I strongly advice against it. For unholy it's great when you need to push that extra Blood boil or Blood strike, it's also ideal for refreshing Bone shield. So dont go popping it whenever :)
Thx, will keep that in mind. Keep forgetting that BS requires a rune.
Post by
dervasavred
Now depending on your physical vs magical tps ratio you ought to shift points around to max out 2-h wep spec, I find 2% phys damage better than 1% "now and then" from Desecration.
What do you mean "now and then" from Desecration? Des has 100% uptime.
Post by
Aleanos
What do you mean "now and then" from Desecration? Des has 100% uptime.
I'm being super picky :)
Desecration is not up when you pull or when moving vigorously. These cases are of course extremely few, but I couldn't find a better word to describe it.
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