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Unholy DPS question
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Post by
Squishalot
Not a DK, so please don't flame.
Just wanted to find out what would be appropriate dps for a starting Unholy L80 DK would be. He's got a few crafted epics, and a couple of runs worth of gear (blue 80s, maybe a purple 80 drop).
What should I be expecting? With similar gear as a Ret pally, I can pull about 2k dps fairly easily/regularly. Is 1.2-1.3k dps just because he's undergeared and the spec is gear dependent (though I thought Frost is more dependent), or it likely to be a rotation/talent problem?
I've tried looking through the stickies, and while they appear helpful for developing rotations and whatnot, I'm just blurred by the number of abilities up for use - I can't make much sense of it as a non-DK.
(Don't want to link his armory because he's not the one asking for help - don't want to name and shame.)
Post by
334662
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I've taken the liberty of liberating his talent spec from the Armory:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMZZfM0IxcdgcqMcsut:VorV
He's not using Glyph of Disease, but you might suggest that some of the alternatives aren't exactly winners either...
Doesn't look like he's using overtly PvP or tanking points, but that's just from an outsider's perspective. Does Bone Shield count as a tanking skill, or as simple common sense for the 2% extra damage?
I'll check out his rotation the next time I play with him and try to compare it to those in the stickies. Thanks for the response :)
Post by
334662
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
Bone shield is more or less an universal talent for Unholy, it's a good tanking CD, and a good dps buff aswell.
His build is more or less the standard 12/0/59 (but he ought to shift some points from Necrosis to morbidity). Also hit glyph choices are questionable, Death grip ought to be replaced by Dark death and DnD with the ghoul glyph.
Since you mention his gear is more or less on par with yours, I'd say his problem most likely lies in a lack of hit and rotation errors.
Edit: Lynri beat me to it, blast these coloured letters/numbers! :p
Post by
338797
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
Toughness does increase the amount of AP gained through BA, however the amount gained per point is minisclule.
The way I see things when it comes to unholy builds is that:
The first 17 points spent in blood are great for low geared/leveling builds. Since you'll gain extra Ap and Crit, the downside of this is that it doesn't scale too well (BA scaling through content isn't that high).
12 points into blood is all that's needed if you're in decent level 80 gear, since placing more talents into unholy scales better than a static 5% crit (dark conviction).
And finally at higher gear levels, 10 points into frost scales better than what those points could've done in blood.
The idea of placing the majority of your points into unholy and then distribute the remains in both blood and frost is, in theory, a good idea. This "bumps up" your gear level by a slight notch, enabling BI to offer an even greater point by point value.
However
Do keep in mind that unholy and spliced blood/frost builds miss out on great utility and situation-enhancing talents. Such as (in your case) WP, Morbidity, Dirge, IUP, GF etc. Whilst all of these talents aren't a static %-based damage increase, they're all extremely useful and should not be underestimated as dps enhancing talents.
The additional rp gained from Dirge is very helpful in filling out your rotation and maintaining a proper RP level. Morbidity is great, both for the 15% dmg increase to our main RP dump and 15sec off DnD is amazing for aoe (also when stacking rp before a fight). WP is a good single target talent and crazy for aoe.
Increased movement speed from IUP is situational, but at those times it's a very good thing to have (running from aoe, running to targets etc.)
Ghoul frenzy is interesting, at first it can seem to be a lackluster, but It's actually a very good talent which is a good dps increase. With GF and IT/WF totem my ghoul reaches 1sec attack speed, and the healing has saved my ghoul many times.
Concluding, I oppose of 10/9/52 (and 7/10/54) builds, i find the sacrifices being made are simply too large for the extra ap and BI. Also, the trick is to create an UH build matching your personal needs/purpose. If you're not doing too many raids/instances then IUP looses alot of value etc. etc.
Btw the build you linked isn't the same as the way you describe your own build. Please fix the link :)
Edit: Also, IIT can't really be called a "big boost to your damage", since odds are you'll be using it once every 20seconds min, if Glyph of SS procs, then you wont be needing it for another x seconds, greatly diminishing it's value.
Post by
338797
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
RPM does
not
increase the duration of gargoyle. Gargoyle doesn't work in the same way as DRW, it comsumes 50 rp and then it drains 3rp every second after 10 second totalling a max 40 second uptime (according to the tooltip, I remember reading somewhere that it's only a max 30 second uptime).
Both BI and BA are great for unholy, but the thing is that a build with both will preform worse than a build with only one I think. An Unholy/blood build is best suitable to beginner/semi preogressing gear levels, and a 0/10/61 BI build is better at tier 7.5+ gear levels.
Pre-BI gear levels it's understandable not to pick IUP, but for higher content it's very useful (not to mention your UP gets beefed up, making it a possible candidate when facing quick target changes/weak mobs, enabling you to stack your diseases and begin your rotation rapidly).
I'd say your spliced blood/frost unholy build generously boosts your dps, (10% shadow/frost and ~400 or so AP). But are these general bonuses worth sacrificing GF, IUP, WP and Morbidity?
I'm highly skeptical to the potential of such a minced build (which most likely makes me bias against blood/frost-unholy builds, so keep that in mind please)
Personally, I'm using a
12/0/59
build for dps (and blood for fun ;)). Altough I am planning to switch one point from necrosis to get CE (since I've been doing alot of Instances lately).
This is mainly due to my current gear level (it's a work in progress) being too low for the 0/10/61 build.
Edit: Sorry about the time taken for me to reply, busy day. Also I finally found the words I was looking for. getting both BA and BI is like equipping yourself with BiS gear, only to use a 3.3 speed 185dps weapon. You have the goods, but you cannot mediate your potential due to a lack of tools required.
Post by
dervasavred
Aleanos's advice is very sound: you would be remiss to ignore it or shrug it off.
IUP is very, very welcome in Ulduar content. Nearly every boss has some movement aspect to it that you will be thankful to possess versus other melee DPS.
And there have been simulations shown that say that 10/9/52, 7/10/54, etc. builds have been under-performing in comparison to 12/0/59.
One point Aleanos did not touch on was that 2HWS in Blood affects strike damage and white melee damage. This means SS, melee, PS, Necrosis (indirectly) and BCB all get a slight bonus.
As a rule of thumb, IUP + GF are not as required for Naxx-level content, but once you push into Uld they become better and better, especially the second half of Ulduar.
As a final note, Dirge has become even stronger as of 3.1.2 with the nerf to 4pc T7 and 3-rune RP generation.
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