Anyone else dissapointed with the warrior talent changes?

Post by inmediasres

Bladestorm seems like it's ok, but i think it needs a little work. The problem with it is that when you use it, you can't reapply MS, hamstring, you can't intercept if someone runs away... honestly i think if they would just add a speed increase of about 60% for the duration, it might be good, but as it is right now, it simply doesn't seem to compare to all the other 51 point talents.

I'd agree. Whenever I break some CC I feel a need to catch up for someone. Yet, only thing I'll be doing is whirlwind in the air...

It is early for final decisions - we do need to try it out to make final judgement, but it is definitely reasonable to notice that warrior is still lacking CC, and that makes him not-so-desirable as a DPS - just like in TBC (which introduced quite a demand on CC). As Sakkura said - if shamans and druids can have it, why not warriors?

I don't even wont to start on Enrage...

It all comes down to imagination - and developers pretty much lacked it when it came to making warriors. Here you are: you can wield any weapon in game (not that every is viable...) and in the next expansion... well... you can take two 2H-ers with ya - how about that? Great, now we can do the same thing with 51-point talents too: just stack up 3 whirlwinds and you have shiny new talent!

And imagination is what I see when i look at rogue's talents - both old and new. Similar with hunters...

I do admit that Protection seems fine to me, Shockwave might be seen as a warstomp/thuncerclap combination, but that should be a nice combination for tanking, some other talents seem ok too, yet not sure if they will help us with multitanking, or we will still need CC-ers around us.

Anyway, for those who think that criticism=whining, I just want to say that I rarely log to my warrior lately, so no need for whines. The reason I'm writting this is because it seems that I won't be logging much once WotLK is out either.
And for those with good intentions, I only have to say that warrior is what it is, not what we want it to be - rerolling and quiting are both an option.

Best regards

Post by Frederic

But that's not in a PvP spec anyway, so...

If you drop one point in commanding presence, one point in weapon mastery, one point in flurry, sweeping strikes, or piercing howl (I'd personally drop the one point in CP) you can get both points in Imp Slam. If you do a build without flurry you can drop one point in enrage.

I find I really like what that 0.5 second slam does a for me being able to get into a raid without respeccing when I'm arms (not a progression raid, obviously), and that extra burst doesn't hurt when I want somebody to feel the pain either.

azraphail did post pretty much what would be the best fury spec imo...ive always wanted fury w sword spec.

@stormherald being unique - well that sucks lol, guess ill just sell the mats i was saving up , get some consumables for illidan right right?

+ 10% dmg > +5% damage (approximately).

Also, make yourself a Deep Thunder.

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Post by Sakkura

Completely inacurate math. We have no idea what kind of weapons will be available at level 80 as fasr as 2handed swords go. My assumptions, based on the current skills/talents info release (for example, a druids pounce rank 4, now bleeds for 600, will bleed for 2100 rank 5) that the stats/damage increase will be similarly dramatic. Thus I'm guessing that Titan's Grip, especially at level 80, will be very powerful indeed.
The raw DPS difference between onehanders and twohanders has remained the same from level 1 through level 70. Not much reason to assume that will change post-70. The stats budget difference basically follows the same pattern; even if the difference in stats in absolute terms will be much greater at level 80, the relative difference will (unless something extraordinary happens) remain the same as it is now.

Post by Frederic

well you did skip on 3% hit from precision and 20% crit bonus for abilities, sweeping strikes (i know its nerfed) and 4% less aggro from furious resolve. its worth putting points on imp thunderclap specially that in some situations the warrior tank can be rage starved or you may not even have a warrior tank at all!. all in all, i think 26/45/00 is a very nice spec to consider, am sure those talents gained from arms tree can make up for the 10% damage from a deep protection talent (even though i agree its a nice talent that i wish it could be on a lower tier)

The hit can be made up for with itemization easily enough, usually I consider precision filler talent when making a build because it is easily replaced by gear.
Impale and one-hander spec have an identical effect on crits, but one-hander applies to all damage. If you do the math you will find the value of impale is also severely overrated. Go grab a DPS calculator from elitistjerks and plug in some stats, then add/remove the points in impale.
The 4% aggro might be tricky, or it might not depending on base-line threat in Wrath. You could also swap rampage for vigilance, which allows you to control someone else's threat and justifies you getting a paladin's new salvation cast when you are pushing the aggro range, or you could trade vigilance with another similarly specced warrior.
You should also look at Incite, the replacement for Defiance. The control gained over flurry up-time might come in handy.

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Post by nossy

Fury will be awesome in PVP if...

There's a Fury 51pt talent that went something like this:

Send the warrior into berserk increasing (insert a stat) by 10%. While beserking, the warrior does not feel pity or remorse or fear and cannot be stopped unless killed. Last 18 second.

I'm just tired being kited and snared.

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Post by Knightspectre

I actually think it's kind of exciting to see protection getting love, maybe to address some folks' overall feeling that tanks are so rare now? Although I'm still a little confused where it leaves me, an Arms warrior with some partial in protection as a hybrid in PvE. And is it true Overpower's damage ability is getting reduced? Arms still seems underloved really.

I suppose it will all come down to application. As this is a beta phase any number of things could be changed or not even integrated at all. Warriors will still be wanted and needed, and if there is a huge debacle..well, that's what patch changes are for, right? Nothing changes if nothing changes, so to speak.

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Post by Sakkura

I actually think it's kind of exciting to see protection getting love, maybe to address some folks' overall feeling that tanks are so rare now? Although I'm still a little confused where it leaves me, an Arms warrior with some partial in protection as a hybrid in PvE. And is it true Overpower's damage ability is getting reduced? Arms still seems underloved really.
The bonus damage is being removed, so yeah the damage is reduced. Just not a very big reduction at all, especially when using a twohander. Actually more of a (tiny) nerf to prot battle-stance DPS.

According to wowhead, the bonus damage on overpower is 35, so compared with your weapon damage it's... Not anything to worry about, I hope.

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Post by Cannibal

It looks to me that we will not be seeing this till arms & fury trees are corrected:

WTB tank to ..........
LF Tank to .......

because most players will be tanks after seeing how they are overhelmed by the other classes in most aspects when the expansion out.

Maybe blizzard have intentionally did this because accept it or not warriors are still the best tanks in game and they are rare, well good & talented ones are in the edge of extiction.

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Post by Laihendi

What's with all these people saying bladestorm will make MS warriors better for PvE? If you spec for bladestorm then you would have to give up improved slam, which is essential for a PvE MS build.

Post by Frederic

What's with all these people saying bladestorm will make MS warriors better for PvE? If you spec for bladestorm then you would have to give up improved slam, which is essential for a PvE MS build.

Because clearly 5 back-to-back whirlwinds is better than the 30 slams you can do in the same period of time. Man you're a scrub.

In other news: a high haste + heroic strike build is doable in Wrath with just windfury + flurry:

(3.6 / 1.24) / 1.25 = 2.3 speed

If you can expect wrath gear to have a fair bit of haste itemization (I would expect it, they seemed to be heading that way with sunwell + QD) then you could probably get to ~2 speed with around 177 haste, which should be easy enough.

Post by Jagr

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMhbIbqMbdi0sZiczV0xRZ0h

PvP warriors live on. MS Warriors are good the way they are. Right now, Pally Tanks > Warrior Tanks. Defensive stance generates more threat and Slam is now a non-talent skill so warrior tanks (and especially raid dps/OT) will be better than before. Blizzard wants to beef up the warrior tanking which is a great idea.

Post by Laihendi

Because clearly 5 back-to-back whirlwinds is better than the 30 slams you can do in the same period of time. Man you're a scrub.
3 whirlwinds.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMhbIbqMbdi0sZiczV0xRZ0h
That's a bad build. You're missing all sorts of key talents. Also, death wish is will be worthless since it won't break fear and doesn't stack with enrage.

Edit:
Slam is now a non-talent skill

Slam was never a talent-skill as far as I know, and I fail to see what slam has to do with tanking.

OMG 300TH POST WOOT

Anyone else dissapointed with the warrior talent changes?

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