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Cho'gall issues, any advice?
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Post by
Arothand
We got up to ol' Choggers last night for I think the second or so time (my first time). The lowest we ended up getting him was to about 50% before we had too many down and had to wipe it. My specific issue is that I am taking MASSIVE hits from him; I have to pop all of my cooldowns pretty much one after the other to stay alive and then a minute or so later (his second Fury I think) I won't have anything up to save me.
What happens is the other tank pulls him, I taunt when he does Fury, but then the other tank goes to grab the add so I have to eat one fury because the other tank is still tanking the add which is about to die, then the other tank comes back and taunts, then he has a fury a second or so before the next add so I taunt him back and again I'm taking a fury while the other tank handles the add. I'm not sure what we're doing wrong, but I know I am just getting smashed to bits. I have a spec built around Word of Glory and I'm using that every time I have 3 HP (and sometimes even 2 because I really need the heals). I even switch to Seal of Insight after a couple of seconds. My healers are healing me but the guild does not assign tank heals to specific tanks so that might be a problem (my girlfriend is a Disc Priest in the raid and told me last night the "healing officer" wasn't giving out tank assignments) but I can't think of what else could be going wrong to make me just get the snot beaten out of me a few minutes into the fight. I've almost always died within a few seconds during his second Fury because I've already used all my cooldowns (even when I can use them I die) on his first Fury.
Any tips?
Post by
LookOut
The add should pretty much die around the time you get Fury on you. At that point the tank who was tanking the add taunts him off you. The next fury aligns more or less with the add summon, so as soon as you see fury being cast, taunt him again. You'll have a few seconds of the debuff left.
But yes, cho'gall hits like truck. Especially during Flame Order. Be sure to keep your cds for Flame Order.
Also, be quick on interrupting his Mind Controls (worshipping it's called). It gives cho'gall a stacking buff if they stay up for long, and if it's a healer, then a tank might die.
Tank cho'gall in the middle if you're doing 10man, at his throne if you're doing 25man. Adds should die on the stairs.
Post by
Thror
Any tips?
Yeah... post your armory next time.
Anyway, there seems to be something amiss with your:
Trinkets.
Helmet enchant.
Stamina gems everywhere.
If you want to take less damage, you do not stack stamina. You stack Mastery.
On the fight itself, there are a few things that can cause a tank death...
Your group is slow at interrupting mind controlled players, and Cho'gall stacks his buff too high.
Your off tank drags the add way too far from you and healers can either heal you or him. Since no healer is assigned to anything, this can cause lack of heals landing on you, and results in your death.
You are somehow messing up with Fury of Cho'gall, and getting more than a single stack of it at any time.
Post by
Arothand
Huh? Unless something major changed since launch, I am using the recommended gemming strategy off Maintankadin and the ideal "wogger" raid spec: stam in blue sockets, mastery/stam in yellow and colorless, one parry/stam for meta. I cannot help the helm enchant yet as I am not exalted with them yet so I am using the second best option and I have had no luck with trinkets - I am hoping to get the stam trinket from Magmaw if we do BWD tonigjt.
Post by
Thror
Look, you are complaining that you take too much damage. Forget about what is recommended, and think a little. What reduces damage taken? Stamina, or Mastery? Mastery. You only really need 160k~ hp to kill Cho'gall. The goal is to get somewhere to that number, and to dump as much stats as possible into the best damage reducing stats you can have. Which means Mastery mainly, and avoidance secondly, for pallies.
Post by
LookOut
As a sidenote,
Arcanum of the Earthen Ring
require revered rep, not exalted.
And yes, stack mastery. My guildy pallytank was asked the same by our officers.
Post by
hatman555
How many healers are you using?
-This is a 3 healer fight. So you should have a dedicated tank healer. A dedicated raid healer, and a swing healer that switchings from the Add off tank to the raid, and then back to the main tank in times of damage. Your GF as a disk priest would probably be the best for the raid heals. While a paladin would be a great swing healer, because he can beacon the main tank and heal the off tank or the raid to heal the third healer on you.
Are you getting the mind controls interrupted as soon a possible?
-The longer the MC's are up the more damage your going to need to deal with. Every 3 seconds of mind control you are going to get a stack of Twisted devotion. No only does each stack increase the damage of all his specials by 10% but it increases his natural melee damage as well. As a prot paladin in a 10 man, you should be able to get almost EVERY MC by yourself if everyone is stacked up.
Avenger's Shield
will bounce to both MC'ed targets. Since a MC will happen every 30 seconds, just make sure you have your shield up for those moments, threat should never be a problem since DPS in your raid will be switching to DPS the main add and the smaller adds.
How to use your CD's
-The boss will alternate 2 main damage abilities. Fire orders, and Shadow orders. Fire orders will do 30,000 more fire damage per swing on the main tank, while Shadow orders will do 10K or something like that per pulse for 5 or 6 pulses to the raid. CD' should be used appropriately.
-Flame orders should always be a
Divine Protection
Depending on how many stacks of damage bouns the boss has you might consider using a bigger CD.
Mirror of broken Images
is a great trinket to have. it will ad 30% or more damage reduction to the fire component of that special. Also to help your OT while he has flame orders,
Hand of Sacrifice
will help you soak some of that damage while your not doing anything.
-Shadow orders can really hurt a raid if it is boosted by the stacks of the
MC buff
. Save
Divine Guardian
for this, it really helps the raid.
But anyways enough about me talking. When your trying to get help from people it helps to be as details as you can when discribing your situation. So if you still need more help give the following:
-Your armory
-10 or 25 man raid
-Classes for your OT, Healers, and DPS if its a 10 man.
-Classes for your OT, Healers, if its a 25 man
-Other troubles that you may notice but are not sure if they relate to your main problem
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
Arothand
Thanks. Its 25man and I try to use Shield when I can.
Will post more info later as I am at work. Also I will try regemmingto just mastery in my yellow and colorless sockets. That shouls also be fine for the other fights although I am worried my health will be a bit low.
Post by
581897
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Arothand
Okay. Like I said I researched it heavily beforehand and the suggestion from the theorycrafters was to simplify the gemming by using stam/mastery in yellow and colorless sockets. Gf has a jc so I will ask her to cut me some +40mastery gems to replace the +20 stam/+20 mastery gems.
Post by
prollfin
Seems like STA no longer being the top stat is hard to accept... Afterall, unlike a
BIG
health pool, your chance to block isn't exactly hanging out of your pants... But really, it's all about intrinsic values in the end...
Post by
Arothand
Right. I think the theory was to compromise and thats what I was trying to accomplish myself.
Post by
hatman555
Considering that the toon you play is a Blood elf, I would recomend using a
Arcane Torrent
rotation. Avenger shield is great for 10 man, but when your dealing with 5 MC's now instead of 2, Arcane torrent is really the best way to stop the MC's
Get 5 blood elfs and give them an order
First --> Second --> Third --> Forth --> Fifth.
Easy communication on vent as follows:
First "First ready, stack up"
Second "Second on back up"
MC happens
First "Got it, Second next"
Second "Second ready, stack up"
Third "Thrid on back up"
MC happens
but second is MC'd
Second "Back up go!"
Third "Got it! Second next, forth on back up"
Second "Second ready, stack up"
Forth "Forth on back up"
Honestly, it may look complicated, but having good communication and a system like this makes the healers love you, and the damage almost none existant. As always tho, everyone else in the raid should have their breaks ready, just incase someone is out of possition.
Your gear is low, your doing a end boss, its going to be hard, you need to make sure you do your best to tank perfectly, Any MC stacks could mean your death. So get a system set, and get that boss killed! GL mate
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
pezz
If you're doing 25s, do you have a warlock or a fire mage? My guild's got both and we use shadowfury and dragon's breath. Works every time.
Post by
Arothand
We were using dragons breath as I recall.
Post by
MasterOutlaw
Considering that the toon you play is a Blood elf, I would recomend using a
Arcane Torrent
rotation. Avenger shield is great for 10 man, but when your dealing with 5 MC's now instead of 2, Arcane torrent is really the best way to stop the MC's
Actually, as far as I can tell Torrent doesn't do anything. Torrent's interrupt effect doesn't work on players (only the silence portion) and they're still counted as players when they're being controlled. Or at least I tried to use Torrent several times the other day and the target didn't stop worshiping until I turned and kicked them instead.
Post by
pezz
Were you sure you were in range? AT works just fine for us.
Post by
soccergenius
Considering that the toon you play is a Blood elf, I would recomend using a
Arcane Torrent
rotation. Avenger shield is great for 10 man, but when your dealing with 5 MC's now instead of 2, Arcane torrent is really the best way to stop the MC's
Actually, as far as I can tell Torrent doesn't do anything. Torrent's interrupt effect doesn't work on players (only the silence portion) and they're still counted as players when they're being controlled. Or at least I tried to use Torrent several times the other day and the target didn't stop worshiping until I turned and kicked them instead.
No, while players are worshiping they become hostile. Interrupts, stuns, and disorients all work. My group stacks together to make this easier. We finally found a legitimate PvE use for
War Stomp
. Concerning Arcane Torrent, I could see the Silence effect from it as a debuff on WoW's default raid frames on my raid members.
Post by
MasterOutlaw
Maybe I'm unlucky then because several times I tried to use it on the other melee around me and it didn't do anything so I had to kick them instead. And I'm sure I was in range because I didn't have to move anywhere when I turned to use Kick. Guess I'll give it another shot when we go back later this week. Good to know it was probably something I was doing wrong instead of there being an issue with AT.
Post by
118713
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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