Divine storm or reckoning

Post by 94757

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Post by blademeld

it's a misunderstanding on both parties lead from

it is better to have an improved retribution aura (since thats the aura you will be using) then yet a 15% chance on ability with a cooldown to do extra dmg on another ability with a cooldown.

how about we just look over it?

Post by Badversusevil

your all a bunch of yuppies, http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000550101300230005200000000000052302512200113503105201000 is arguably the best ret/reck spec (the one point in two-handed spec is interchangeable with guardians favor) why none of you have thought of this is beyond me.

Edit: corrected link.

Post by xaratherus

your all a bunch of yuppies, http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html is arguably the best ret/reck spec (the one point in two-handed spec is interchangeable with guardians favor) why none of you have thought of this is beyond me.

Wow... 0/0/0. Amazing talent tree. ;)

Post by 94757

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Post by Philmckraken

Again i';m not saying this is for PVE but for PVP where you take dmg a good bit. I only used toughness to get into the next tier but you're right i should go with fury. I can swap around for the 3% crit and dmg but 3% haste won't mean anything. Reckoning may proc 1/10 of the time but when you're getting hit by a rogue, shaman or warrior, it's garaunteed to proc, after which you have this to look forward to.

2K white
2K white
2K blood
2K blood
3k CS (double that if it procs reckoning but idk if it does)
5k Judge

I figure this is what a normal volley without crits or AW would look like at 80 being geared like a S2 lvl 70 now. In the next auto swing you could do another 8k in an instant, which will be more than enough to cripple any opponent.

Forgive the whole noobish thing but the point is you can't just say a spec is outright wrong until you've actually considered what you're getting out of it.

Reckoning is never guaranteed to proc. Neither is Seal of Command, which is why everyone hates it. However, (and I'm certainly no expert on PvP or Blood Knights,) I've been told by several people who are, that using Seal of Blood is a bad idea for PvP. "Literally suicide" is what one site said.

Also, if your white hit does 2K, how are you getting 2K from seal of blood/martyr? Tooltip says 35% of normal weapon damage, so your numbers just aren't adding up. If 2K was normal weapon damage, SoB adds 700dmg per swing (and in this case, costs you 540 health over the course of this hit string).

So, unless SoR does the same damage per swing as SoB, I still don't see using it in a PvP Ret build. Everything about it is based upon random chance or assumption, while the talents you sacrifice in the Ret tree are guaranteed to work, 100% of the time.

Post by 94757

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Post by Badversusevil

Post by Philmckraken

I'd use SoV/C With this sort of spec, now its on an 100% proc rate.

It won't do as much damage as SoCommand. Furthermore, it can't crit, and you must get 5 hits on the target before you see the full effect. PvP opponents don't just stand there and get hit like mobs do. SoV/c is a tanking tool.

Post by 94757

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Post by 179716

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Post by Philmckraken

I was more thinking the DoT side of it. like you say pvp opponents don't just stand there,

Ofc I don't pvp much :) It was just a theory :)

Most of the arguments in favor of reckoning are based in theory, and not fact. Take comfort that you're not alone. : )

Post by Philmckraken

Course SoB is suicidal, but not SO much so that you will end up killing yourself on the spot, it's not meant to be used the whole time, just while reckoning is up, in order to get the dmg. Don't forget we'll get a lot of spell dmg which is why i have sheath of light selected, so that 35% increases by more. It's not usually exactly 35% anyway, from when i used it in 2.4 beta sometimes it was but others it was exactly the same as my melee dmg.

The talents that i passed that u said are garaunteed just don't seem to pack enough punch. In PVE it'd be fine because the dmg adds up. But in PVP, you don't have time for that Little differences like that won't do you much. The way i see it, with this build, you get all the strengths of the current pld and then some, with the potential for incredible burst dmg. SoB can crit for more than a normal melee swing too, which is rather common from my experience. Reckoning procs more often than you think, especially when someone who dual wield is fighting you. We'll have to wait and see, but if someone in beta could test this it'd be great

SoB isn't suicidal enough to kill you by itself (we already have an ability that does that!), but when you add in the damage that you are taking from your target (and his teammates), it becomes a factor.

Back to the original point of this thread, Divine Storm vs Reckoning, it comes down to this: Reck might cause damage, Divine Storm will. Divine Storm does damage when you need it to (unless it's on C/D), while Reckoning is not controlled.

As for the rest of the talents you passed on in favor of reckoning, you really can't see the PvP value in 3% more crit chance, or 30% less slowing duration, or 3% more haste?

Post by 94757

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Post by 179716

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Post by Philmckraken

3% haste is basically what i have on my blade of the harbingers and its not noticable. The 3% crit i don't think will be as noticable at lvl 80 as you might think, but i altered my build so it's not 5/5 reckoning and allows me to get divine purpose.

The point about reckoning might cause dmg isn't completely true. It might proc, but it WILL hurt your opponent. if you only got to use 2 of the 4 reckoning charges, the dmg there at a minimum will be very high.

3% crit is 3% crit no matter what level. Unlike crit rating, it's a flat %, and will not scale up or down.

"Might Proc" and "might cause additional damage" mean the same thing for purposes of this discussion. Every time you get hit, there's a 10% chance that it will proc, and a 90% chance that it won't. I just can't see the virtue of a talent build based upon something that has a 90% chance of not happening.

Post by 179716

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Post by blademeld

3% haste is basically what i have on my blade of the harbingers and its not noticable.

did you just use personal opinion to argue against mathematics?

and did you take into account that it's a raid-wide buff or that it will make your heals faster?

Post by 179716

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Post by Philmckraken

Reckoning does do additional dmg though, of course the proc rate isn't stellar but the dmg you're capable of shoots up a lot. It's very unrealistic to say that because you're not squishy you won't take dmg. They may not make you a prime target but then that means you can use that to your advantage and take the fight to them 1st. They have to hit you at some point, and ANY dmg you take procs it, so maybe use hand of sacrifice on someone, let's say, the most vulnerable opponent.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZxGzhRh0xZxfztbouNGsMzh

I revised it some

I'm not saying that because you're wearing plate, you won't take damage. You will, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a 90% chance that reckoning will do nothing. Meanwhile, Divine Storm will do additional damage every 6 seconds.

Your new build also forgoes Righteous Vengeance. 25% more damage from a judgement of command crit (which is doubled when your target is stunned) is a worthwhile talent.

i won't be doing any healing outside of bubble, it's too risky.

Divine Storm will heal you every 6 seconds, with no risk.

Divine storm or reckoning

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