DOTD - Debate of The Day #52

Post by Lombax

So what are you suggesting? Since kids get around boundaries, boundaries should just be forgotten? Besides, if a parent has an iq over 50 they will know when their kid is up to something, and how to find out.
Meh, kids can sneak things easily. As a example: Everyone I know whom had timelimit programs on their computers had cracked keys for that product.
Lombax, why do all your posts have to be SO hostile?
The way I usually use english is to troll people in games. Can't be bothered with changing that for forum posts. And I'm a pretty ^&*!-move person over all.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##The way I usually use english is to troll people in games. Can't be bothered with changing that for forum posts. And I'm a pretty ^&*!-move person over all.
I suggest you try harder.

Post by OverZealous

I'm with MyTie on this one. Parents should have the right to check their teens' texts, and even if they don't really want to - they should. As said, too much !@#$ could happen if no one knows what they're up to.

Post by Ksero

There is one thing i would like to add, on the subject of overprotecting kids. By keeping them so sheltered it doesn't mean that they are going to be more sheltered once they are out of your care. In my first year of university the people who drank the most and smoked the most were the ones whos parents had kept them sheltered for their entire childhoods, the same is the case with girls who came into first year as virgins, and came out with having banged 20+ guys over the year.

Look, I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids, but thinking that over-protectiveness now is going to keep them sheltered in the future you are wrong, it's like an animal being let out of it's cage, the second it sees freedom it bolts for it.

Why not let your kid mess up and learn from the mistakes, so when they get to the point where everything isn't controlled by their parents they know what to do in the situation.

Post by OverZealous

Post by Ksero

You make a good point, Ksero, but I don't think most parents would willingly let their children "mess up", at least not badly, if they know what will happen and can stop it. "Messing up" can end worse than you anticipated, which is where the problem lies, I think. Of course, I do not have children either, so I am only semi-qualified to talk about this stuff.

I'm not saying let your kid get pregnant to teach them a lesson. More along the lines of let them go to a party, get too drunk, and have them puke their guts out/be really hung over the next day, the earlier this happens to them, the less likely they are to be heavy drinkers for the rest of their lives.

Post by OverZealous

Post by ElhonnaDS

I'm not saying you need to let a kid get in trouble. But if your child is proving that they're responsible, and getting good grades, hanging out with good kids, being where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be and the like, I think it's a good idea to reward that by showing them they've earned some trust.

Post by OverZealous

Post by Ksero

I agree that a lesson could be taught that way. The problem is what might happen at that party - rape is not unheard of; nor is alcohol-related accidents. If you're intent on teaching them a lesson and willingly let them party their guts out, you can never be sure that things won't end up worse than you intended, which is why I think parents in general don't want to let their kids party hard, and why I think that I, in the unlikely event that I ever have kids, wouldn't want them to, either.

Right, i understand that stuff can happen, but my point is they are going to get into those situations (most likely) once they are out of your control. Rape is a lot more likely at 20 then it is at 16, especially if its an all high school party. At some point they are gonna get drunk to the point of puking and being hung over, if it happens at 16 they are going to be a lot more wary of it than at 20 (because everyone will be puking and hungover).

This is from a Canadian point of view, and maybe its just cause high school parties are a lot safer here, but in the past 6 years, there haven't been any deaths from a party, there have been a few from drinking and driving with teens involved, but i would teach them never to get into a car with a drunk driver.

Post by Magician22773

Ksero,

You are partially right. Keeping a child overly sheltered can lead to them making bad mistakes when they are released from your care.

But, what you hope for as a parent is that their mind will mature while you are sheltering them, and as a young adult, they will then make better decisions on their own.

Your idea of letting a 16 yr old get good and drunk to teach them that drinking is bad is a perfect example of the different methods of thinking between a (responsible) adult, and a (typical) teenager. I can all but guarantee you, when you have a teen of your own, that your opinion will change.

Post by MyTie

I think there is some balance to be determined here. If you are a good parent, a loving parent, that balance should be self evident. That line, that sits between overprotective intrusions, and apathetic carelessness. For me, as a parent, and whos kids have MADE THESE MISTAKES, and who as a child made similar mistakes, I determine that line to define the reading of text messages as not only something that I should be allowed to do (which is ridiculous to think that I wouldn't be), but further is my prerogative, and even further, is my responsibility. I don't read every text that girl sends. There aren't enough minutes in a day. However, once in a while, if I get the passing thought, I'll flip through the first couple dozen. Other than that, if she acts weird around her phone, or if I don't see her phone for a long time (shes hiding it from me), I'll seek it out and dissect every text sent/received for the last few weeks. I can feel when something is amiss with her, because I have spent SO much time with her, and learned her ques, and her attitudes, and feelings, and ways of communicating. Once you learn someone, and spend enough time with them, you can tell things about them. Parents should be like that.

Post by Lombax

I personally would let my parents read my text, that I have no problems with. Same with Skype messages. There are like 5 persons in this world who would get everything written on those.

E-mail, no. Or well, actually I would allow them to read what-ever that's not related to any passwords/game accounts. So it's a no. Not letting them know my passwords, that's just something I will never let anyone know.

I don't really see a problem with parents reading texts and messages from my point of view.

Post by MyTie

Post by Lombax

Post by Ksero

Your idea of letting a 16 yr old get good and drunk to teach them that drinking is bad is a perfect example of the different methods of thinking between a (responsible) adult, and a (typical) teenager. I can all but guarantee you, when you have a teen of your own, that your opinion will change.

You're right, I will see things a lot differently when I have kids of my own. For now i'm extrapolating from what i have seen, the more someone parties in there teens, the less chance they have of going overboard when they get that freedom.

Post by Rystrave

If my kid decided that she would "allow" me or "disallow" me to read her emails/texts, she would lose the ability to send/receive text emails. Privacy is a privilege. If she forgot that, she would get a harsh reminder. The attitude that you have, Lombax, of entitlement, would not make it a minute in my house.

1. If anyone threatens me with anything I just threaten them back. Usually they back off.

2. Privacy is not a privilege, it's way to easy to come by.

3. That attitude would be the least of your worries if you had me as a kid.

Don't forget, until you're 18, you're under your parent's authority. Unless you're paying for privileges yourself, I think that parents have the right to know how you're using said privis. The only thing parents and adults don't have control over is your body, believe it or not. Some states don't even require parental consent to getting tattoos and piercings, or even an abortion.

Also, Lombax, you're making yourself sound like a BAMF. If you think you have all this privacy, you better get rid of your cell phone and internet, and live in the deep woods without electricity. The only way to get any privacy is to fall off the grid, which mind you still isn't possible due to satellite imaging. They're gonna zoom in on your little shack in the middle of where ever you are and take pictures of you taking a deuce. And there's nothing you can do about it because you'll never know!

Post by Lombax

Also, Lombax, you're making yourself sound like a BAMF.
Meh, my thought was never to sound like I did in that post. The thing I dislike is that MyTie thinks he has all this control when in fact he does not.

Post by FatalHeaven

Also, Lombax, you're making yourself sound like a BAMF.
Meh, my thought was never to sound like I did in that post. The thing I dislike is that MyTie thinks he has all this control when in fact he does not.

Can we not make personal attacks on people, please. Debating is the point here and voicing your opinion; but I think there is a limit when you begin to attack/call out people in such a manner that will only led to arguments and derailments.

You have no idea what control MyTie does and/or does not have in his home. His kids probably respect him, something you have no reason to do.

Post by Squishalot

Let's make it clear - everybody has a reason to respect others for being human beings.

Everybody, keep this discussion (and all others on this forum) appropriately respectful.

Post by MyTie

The thing I dislike is that MyTie thinks he has all this control when in fact he does not.

This is a pretty good illustration for you. The thing that is in question is control. It sounds as if you are quite used to being in control of things. Children do not control things in my house. You aren't in my house, so you have nothing to worry about. In fact, I wouldn't let someone kid with your attitude in my house.

In my house, I live out in the middle of the woods. I own the cars. I pay for the internet, electricity, and other utilities. I buy the food. We have no cell phone service. I literally, own control, over everything. My wife is the only other adult in our house, and she is my equal, but submits control to me quite happily and willingly. If a child, any child, presumed to control something in my house, they would lose that privilege. I'd probably have them dig two holes 200 yards apart, 3x3x3, and fill them up with the dirt from the other one, to have the privilege of eating cooked food again. We do not put up with pride. The other option kids have would be to run away, and I'd be happy to let them sit in Juv hall. Sheriff Zanni is a good friend of mine, and would agree that they could use the time to cool off.

I do not put up with pride. I have control. That is my responsibility. Children earn their privileges, including the privilege of sending a text to their friends. My daughter, through hard work and responsibility, has earned her privileges, and I wouldn't dare take them away from her. In fact, the girl earned a danged expensive cruise to Hawaii, which I'm still figuring out how to pay for. She is respectful, and patient, and responsible. That's the way we do things out here in the mountains.

So, yes, Lombax. I think I have control. I better. Every good parent should.

DOTD - Debate of The Day #52

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