Feedback? Dampen Magic? Volley? Ghostly Strike? What are thous things?

Post by 1069282

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Wirxaw

You sure seem to have played Vanilla... It's just sad that you consider it as a currency. I could take this post lightly and just care less, but this line:
And also the World has been balanced only once... And it was in Vanilla.
is just... It describes you.

What's wrong you would ask? You are confused. The new world shocks you. Enough to make a forum thread. To make a cry out somewhere, to people who may be like you or to people who could be interested for some reason.
Who should give a damn about Weapon Skill? Who should give a damn about spells that had reason to be removed? You are trying to prove worthy by knowing old things, it's understandable. If you compare a total noob and a noob that returned after long time, of course a noob that returned is so much better - he played in "Vanilla"!
Why do I bother to expose and harass you? I just find it funny when people make stupid mistakes. When they contradict themselves, or write before thinking.

So, how to put it... Let's say that bubbleret, or TH WF shammy or Moonfire spam - all these terms came from Vanilla. They all describe ways to abuse and exploit certain class mechanics. Sure, everyone has a perk, a gameplay, but is it fun to fight somebody, who can bubble and be invulnerable, while you can do nothing about it? Or just bring his health to full with no effort? Or suddenly oneshot you without clicking anything? Maybe you would like to chase a cat that would keep you dotted forever, whom you can not outrun or outreach, whom you can't dps through, either because of bear form or heals? These are just the examples I can remember.
Of course, right now there are also a lot of things that cause imbalance. A lot of tricks to overpower. However, every class is aimed to have equal share of ways to survive in any circumstances, against any effect. This is called balance, not to mention utter development.
But these are my words. You can question them, argue or ignore.
What about your words?
In Vanilla Mage was like glass canon and with that i meant the damage was about 2x bigger then others, but Mage died in couple of sec.
That surely sounds right.
Elune's Grace was only for Night Elves, Feedback was only for Humans and Hex of Weakness was only for Trolls. I miss thous spells a lot.
Race customization for classes that had to be balanced. Apparently it failed.
In Vanilla Priest was the best now its the worst.
This sure proves your statement... and expresses deep knowledge.
In Vanilla the best spec was combat.
Right... and tiers were restricted to specs. Makes the game very diverse.
Every weapon had one of its own like Sword added chance for extra swing.
And therefore brought things like additional stuns to already abusive stunlock, or necessity to respec after every weapon change, or simply requirement to have weapon that provides the most current DPS from it's specific talent. Very interactive, perhaps too interactive.

If that wasn't obvious enough, all your statements prove that Vanilla(compared to current state of the game) was completely imbalanced, lacked any depth of mechanics or diversity.

But enough, fun is fun only while it is fun. The point of this thread is, supposedly, to be a history lesson to those newbies, who never walked the original Azeroth. Go on ahead, it may even make sense. Just please, do not put your opinion, as predictably crude as it is, above the game.

P.S.: Removed Therefore my knowledge does not have the "certificate" of validity, I do not have achievements or character created in 2005(or earlier).
What I do have, however, is the belief that the experience and skill, the only ones that matter - are what they are now. After every patch\expansion, I look back at myself, no matter how bad or good I was - and I always see myself inferior to what I am. It is the progress, the evolution along the game - that's what adds knowledge.
I may feel a bit more confident against "complete noob", just because I've "seen" Vanilla; as well as I would respect a person, who played in or, especially, since Vanilla. They may have Immortal or Hand of Adal. Gladiator or Spirit of Competition, but if they are currently "retired" or casual - that's what they is. Whatever they were is now just words or statistics.

The point is - respect for age and veterancy is proper. But a man can not freeze himself for a decade, wake up and start saying how good the world was. He will be inferior to all those who surpassed him, he will not know what happened in between. Veterans can be senile blabberers, who claim what it was in their life. Or wise and thoughtful keepers of knowledge throughout their life.
So what kind of veteran are you?

P.S.: Is ZAM becoming a brain lump? I miss wowhead, where my profile clearly stated the <omagash removed> information, because that was the only place I could be. Guess I should've been banned back then.(##RESPBREAK##)12##DELIM##Sas148##DELIM##Discussion of private server activity, even just the mere admission of participating in such activity, is not allowed here. I've removed that portion of your post.

Post by cloudp

Arcane, Fire and Frost?
People are complaining that Mage does way too much damage. I have to say that Mage has changed a lot. In Vanilla Mage was like glass canon and with that i meant the damage was about 2x bigger then others, but Mage died in couple of sec. Also Mage had some abilitys which separated skilled players from non skilled. And also it was useful to use fire abilitys as frost and arcane and so on. I have to say Mage is much weaker then it was before. So I would rather call buff then nerf to mage.

But they aren't glass cannon anymore. With a very vast array of crowd control and defensive spells, it does take quite an effort to even reach the Mage. They do explode if caught, but you won't see a good mage even get caught. If they were buffed to Vanilla levels of burst (PoM Pyro levels of burst), that would be the definition of ridiculously overpowered.

Where is my heals?
Okay... Priest has changed a lot! Anyone know ability called Elune's Grace or Feedback or Hex of Weakness? No? Thous spells were removed in TBC if I remember right. Elune's Grace was only for Night Elves, Feedback was only for Humans and Hex of Weakness was only for Trolls. I miss thous spells a lot. There was something special to be Human priest or Dwarf priest. In Vanilla Priest was the best now its the worst.

I did love racial Priest spells, the added flavor was awsome, but I do recognise that they tilted balance in an uncanny way. (And they were removed in Wrath only, TBC still had them going.), so I understand why they're gone. About priest being the best in vanilla, I'm assuming you mean best healer, since shadow's damage was not quite as strong as it is today. Priests are also not the "worst" by today's standards. Sneaky Bastard!
Rogues haven't changed a lot. Well... you cant make your own poisons anymore... In Vanilla the best spec was combat. About 3k crits whit Eviscerate while wearing daggers. Also combat had talents like Mace Specialization which added chance to stun enemy while wearing mace. Every weapon had one of its own like Sword added chance for extra swing. Rogue was more like light warrior and in TBC it turned more like Sneaky Bastard.
The style of rogue is emphasised by his/her specialization. Subtlety rogues really are the sneaky bastards you mention, but Assassination emphasises poison gameplay, with Combat emphasising melee brawl. There are far more options, and while some will almost always be superior because of the current metagame (depending on how resillient targets are, how valuable sustained damage is (burst is always valuable, but sustained has varying degrees of value depending on metagame)) favors them, there are other at least viable options (if not competitive). Vanilla had you going for 1 talent set and you'd be the laughing stock of a server for trying anything else - and they weren't too wrong, since some specs really were an absolute joke. You see, this makes no sense from a player's perspective. Why would I want 3 talent trees if 1 is vastly superior and the other 2 are not only inferior, but grossly underpowered?

Post by Wirxaw

Well said, Cloudp. It may be offtopic, but might as well relate to the subject somewhat, if the author cares to take a look at it(as a Vanilla lesson).
"Tanking is a job. DPSing is a science.
Healing is an art."
Sounds beautiful in theory, but in practice very often goes totally mixed up. Or perhaps you just put together different levels of difficulty. Let's call them dungeon(heroic), raid, heroic progressive raid(undergeared).
In the dungeon situation, healing and tanking are indeed "art" and "job". You have to keep aggro here and there, right. You can heal with this, that and something else. DPS is more of a job, if not hobby, as nothing has any particular requirements nor restrictions - stand and hit the damage button.
In raid situation, all three roles are a job. As a tank. you adjust to certain mechanics, which when done properly, allow you to succeed. Healing is no longer art. Art allows variability, impression and mistake. Healing mistake causes wipe. Where tank survives, healers must heal. Nothing aside from that. You can say that tanks can exploit dps, or healers can assist with dps - I'd call this vanity, not art. DPS is no longer a hobby, but nothing too outstanding is required, gear fills the gaps of skill.
In progressive heroic, pretty much everything becomes science. Different fights require excellence at every given role. A good example is Garajal roadblock(which after a while can be outgeared). Tanks can get squashed by mix of melee and spell damage, not to mention burst requirement for Severers. Unless you really learn to mitigate as your class - you will be killing the raid with excess damage taken. Berserk time is also very tough, especially with Shadow Realm adds that can overwhelm your healers. Unless you are overgeared, it's a good time to end with 1-5 seconds to Berserk. Healing can get extremely spiky and random, it's a lot of pressure to try and avert even other roles' mistakes.
However, on less straightforward fights, same science can take more artful approach. Healing skill of Spirit Kings hc, tanking skill of Will of the Emperor hc - these fights allow some art.

So, to make this a bit oversized remark less offtopic, I'd like to ask the author - how was raiding in Vanilla? How were the roles, atmosphere? Does this "Tanking is a job. DPSing is a science.
Healing is an art." apply to Vanilla?

Post by 1069282

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Feedback? Dampen Magic? Volley? Ghostly Strike? What are thous things?

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