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The amount of rage my hunter gets from LFD tanks for not turning off Growl when I mindlessly AoE down another dungeon in between dailies is kind of baffling. My Paladin and DK tanks also grind Valor through LFD, and I couldn't care less about pets or confused DPS taunting faceroll mobs off of me. It's not even worth the time it takes to write "turn off growl". What's with this phenomenon? I don't recall a single MoP 5man mechanic that requires the tank to have aggro, and if there is one, it can obviously be ignored if even my DK alt in 450 gear sleeps through all the encounters. Is it just an excuse to yell at people and pretend to be more knowledgeable about the instance that turned into a fad, or do people actually think it matters? If you feel like wasting your time teaching other randoms a "lesson" after asking nicely and not getting a reaction (which is not something most tanks actually do, they just start screaming immediately and then expect the other kiddies to react to that in a mature way - i.e. actually turning off growl and dropping the subject, the opposite of what actually follows), just let them take the hits. Rezzing a few DPS or letting them run back in without saying anything is way more efficient than dramatic caps lock matches and circlekickvoting which keep you from actually progressing through the dungeon. Unless you're in it for the drama, in which case please go away!
A tanks job is to hold aggro, if your pet is taking it off them it annoys people. It also annoys healer who have to heal an extra target the shouldn't have to be healing if there is no AoE damage going out.
And Wall'o'Text are also annoying
I'll usually ask once for growl to be turned off, if it isn't I just let the pet die. If the healer wants to work harder than they have to, they're welcome to, but when I heal, I virtually never direct heals to a pet.
I've probably seen this issue arise way more times than it needs to so I'm going to just put some "guidelines" here:
In general, a Hunter really should have Growl off autocast. I recommend putting it on the actionbar to track it.
However, on the off chance a Hunter forgets to turn it off, you really should politely ask them to turn it off as opposed to immediately @#$%^ing at them. In fact, don't @#$%^ at them (or anyone really) ever - it's inexcusable and your negative attitude worsens the group play experience more than the Hunter who forgot about Growl being on autocast does.
This is because it's surprisingly easy to have it enabled by accident. When a specialization is switched, for instance, pet autocast memory doesn't write over so while you may have Growl off in spec 1, it will be on in spec 2. You have to make sure it's off in each spec.
This is especially so because once you add in Stampede (meaning you have to manage all 5 pets and trust me, it's pretty easy to forget whether you've turned off 10 growl autocasts), a pet might Growl. Personally when I'm tanking I actually don't care if a Stampede pet taunts off because there's not as much of a penalty for them dying and it's usually on a boss fight anyways.
If a pet really does pull aggro. Don't bother healing it (unless there was good reason for the pet to pull aggro, such as lolemergencytank because tank died). The dead pet is a pretty significant penalty for the Hunter.
Pets also have specs too. For instance, Hunters may have their pets set to Tenacity "spec" for soloing (because any pet can do that now) and switch to Ferocity for group play. This causes some wonky errors such as Growl autocast being re-enabled and stuff (this isn't supposed to happen).
If it results in a wipe. Then like any other player-caused wipe, give constructive feedback on what they did wrong. Also refer to guideline 2.
All of this applies to other pets in a way, such as Warlock pets (Voidwalker/Felguard in particular).
As someone who plays a hunter there isnt a good reason to have it turned on. You are making it harder for the healer since they now have 2 ppl taunting and harder for the tank to do their job. Ur excuse is it worth it to type in turn off growl yes it is it happens a lot. i have a macro on my pally that says hunter pls turn off growl or i will not taunt and if u get agro then fd so it goes to healer then i will votekick.
Stampede pets are a pain if you dont dismiss your pet or reload ui after turning off growl they will still growl
I am nice to other hunters i group with if i see them not turning off growl i will md them. It usually results in
a quick vote kick which for a dps is a worse punishment than a death
@ Serris- A couple of problems with your proposition that pet taunting has no effect.
It usually makes the target to attack the pet. Most tanks taunts have a CD, so if they have just used them they don't necessarily have them ready when your pet taunts off them. If your pet is taunting the tank's main target they may be able to pull off the pet immediately, but if the mobs are peeling off it's more likely than not that your target (and by extension, your pet's target) is not the tanks target. Meaning that the only person to have aggro on that mob after your pet is you. And once you feign death to drop aggro, the healer is going to be the most likely next target since the mob hasn't been in the tank's rotation. And I highly doubt a hunter who is not conscientious enough to turn off growl is conscientious enough to drag the mob back to the tank and not use feign death so that the healer doesn't get the mob.
Also, in many fights positioning is an issue. If the tank has a mob faced away from the melee and ranged, and the pet taunts it, even if it turns for a second, that can be enough to bathe the melee and maybe the ranged in an area attack, and maybe one shot people with no mitigation. If there are ground effects that the mobs need to be kited away from or towards, the pet can interfere with that too.
Even if you're not causing people to die, spreading out the targets makes the fights take longer because AOE is no longer as effective, they're not getting cleaved, dots aren't spreading to all of them, etc. So you are overall just making the fight more tedious and the instance longer. On top of that, as a DPS you're letting your pet waste a global cooldown on an ability that does no damage, and so overall puts you at a slight disadvantage.
So you're talking about an ability that hurts your DPS marginally, makes everyone else's job more tedious, and has the potential to cause deaths, and has no actual benefit whatsoever to you or anyone else. And your complaint states that you don't like people who won't accept your REFUSAL to turn it off- not just who mention it. So you are purposefully using an ability that has no effect except to make other peoples lives harder in the dungeon, and refusing to do the logical thing by turning it off when asked. May I ask again who is the one who seems like they like creating drama in that scenario? It may take less time to res DPS than to wait 10 min to kick you, but it takes a LOT less time to right click growl off once and not have to res anyone every two-three pulls.
I guarantee that once they have votekicked you, the time and aggravation they save by not having you on the rest of the run makes the time spent on the "circlevotekicking" worth it to them. It may be keeping YOU from progressing through the dungeon, but it makes their lives easier. And since a hunter who refuses to extend even the most basic courtesy to others is most likely not concerned about whether or not they progress through the dungeon, I imagine that they are completely fine with not caring about that hunter's advancement in return.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
I always turn it off, obviously. You're missing the point. Several concerns voiced by you people would be legit ... if LFD had any content that requires good execution. This was all about how to handle the perceived issue, not whether it's actually an issue or the issue itself. I'm sorry if that was hard to grasp. But do you really think "discussing" whether it's "actually me who likes drama" has any value whatsoever? I wouldn't have expected a mod to derail the thread with borderline flaming.
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
You're right- it didn't add to the conversation. I should have addressed the primary issues which were that the action itself is discourteous and ultimately inefficient, and for newer and gearing tanks it can be more difficult than experienced Ilevel 450 tanks, rather than responding to your inflammatory remark. I apologize.
However it is worth noting that I was attempting to draw the comparison between the comparative levels of contribution to the resulting argument, and the differing levels of effort it would have taken to avoid it, since your initial assertion was that those on the other side of the argument were possibly in it for the drama. If the one person has nothing to gain by not turning it off, and it takes one second to do, and the other people are having additional difficulty (DPS dying, having to res, having to wait for them to res or run back, etc.) because of them not turning it off, then it seems that there could be no other reason for the first person not to do it than to intentionally be an inconvenience, and I can't imagine a reason for that other than to create these kinds of arguments. The other people are, however, looking to avoid demonstrated difficulties that it is causing.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
I'm kinda confused about the OP.... They openly admit that people will behave out of character because of having growl ability turned on. Well you have solved your own question.
"Don't keep growl turned on when doing LFD"
Tip for every hunter
The fact you can then write a wall of text on the matter, about your own personal ability to tank & it doesn't seem to have an effect, this by no means rule out that you happen to cause a problem, for others. Since your ability to tank, doesn't mean everyone else likes to play the way you do.
So looking at the situation from every point of view... i truly think you happen to be in the wrong. It doesn't in any way affect your damage or ability to play your class better. It does effect the ability of every other person in the group. As pointed out by many others that have posted before me.
So click the ability off.. the problem is solved. It only takes a second to click the ability off, what is the hardship in doing so?. You sound like a person that gets off on, getting abuse. Perhaps you prefer to moan. Anyways... if you forget to turn off the growl ability, since this can happen, just take what people say with a pinch of salt.
The motivation was part of the question, and exploring that would be part of the solution to this "issue" I encounter frequently. I'm also not what you'd call an experienced tank by a long shot - I pretty much exclusively tank in LFD for instant queues when I'm capping valor, in my DPS gear, and have no trouble staying alive with semi-efficient cooldown usage. The vast majority of tanks I group with outgear my chars, and they're actually more likely to complain than openly insecure, newbish tanks.
Please refrain from posting if you can't be bothered to read the thread.
Meh, I got so tired of hunters not switching their growl off, that I eventually just decided to do one very specific thing: Not bail them out. If they want their pets to tank, I let their pets tank, once their pet is dead, I regain aggro and continue my thing.
If they dare to complain about me not getting aggro on the mobs I just tell them "Hey, I taunted that mob, then your pet taunted it off me, don't want your pet to die? don't let it taunt"
The simple matter of this is that it is annoying. Just that. It gives tanks extra work where there shouldn't be one, it disrupts positioning, it makes me waste my taunts whereas I could save them for when they're REALLY needed (such as a DPS doing more aggro than they should)
As a tank (I play a Tauren Warrior), I see what you mean. I get a lot of people (mostly tanks and mages) mindlessly AoEing, or leaving growl on. This is obiously frustrating, but ever since I've restarted, I promised myself I'd be nice to other people (aside from a bit of Trade Chat trolling). I never yell at anyone in my LFD group, instead I live by one simple rule, which I make clear the first time someone needlessly pulls:
You pull, you tank.
Now this is a creed I don't follow. I'm a tank, my job is to protect the group, and I actually like it when other people pull since ranged classes often can and do funnel all the mobs into one direction so I can easily pick them up. This is godsent for when I'm tanking on my bear druid, but also nice when tanking on my other tanks.
if someone pulls, I pull them off, if someone gains more aggro, I taunt. Its my job to be a tank. I can't really fault a DPS for wanting to perform at peak quality, this often means they have to attack with no holds barred, and no restraint applied, and will sometimes result in them getting aggro. When this happens, its my job to simply peel the mob off them. That's fine and I would consider myself a lazy tank if I expect them to lower their standards just so I don't have to do my job.
What isn't my job however is when someone is specifically using taunt to make my job harder than it needs to be. This isn't limited to hunters with growl on, but also to demo-locks who forget to switch the Tank-Stance of the fel guard (which gives a 500% threat boost to ALL attacks made by the fel guard). And its SPECIALLY poignant to retribution paladins that for some reason or another have righteous fury on (even though it provides no DPS boost at all, some pallys like having it on when leveling, I guess the buff icon does looks pretty)
When these people have any of these, they're not really gaining anything at all by it, but they're making my job harder than it has to be.
(which is not something most tanks actually do, they just start screaming immediately and then expect the other kiddies to react to that in a mature way - i.e. actually turning off growl and dropping the subject, the opposite of what actually follows)
Please don't do that. Don't generalize tanks as being jerks. We're players, just doing our job. Our often thankless job. The job that actually requires us to support others, to give rather than demand. You rationalizing that all (or "most") tanks act like idiots over this issue is simply not true.
Many tanks address this issue (and it is an issue don't try to play it down) in the same way, they politely ask hunters/warlocks to turn their taunt/aggro-presence off, and if they don't comply, they let the pet die, but not the hunter. This way, the hunter suffers (DPS loss) but not the group as a whole.
But do you really think "discussing" whether it's "actually me who likes drama" has any value whatsoever? I wouldn't have expected a mod to derail the thread with
The motivation was part of the question, and exploring that would be part of the solution to this "issue" I encounter frequently. I'm also not what you'd call an experienced tank by a long shot - I pretty much exclusively tank in LFD for instant queues when I'm capping valor,
in my DPS gear
, and have no trouble staying alive with semi-efficient cooldown usage. The vast majority of tanks I group with outgear my chars, and they're actually more likely to complain than openly insecure, newbish tanks.
Please refrain from posting if you can't be bothered to read the thread.
Now this is interesting.
If people don't say what you want to hear, you call them flamers, and basically tell them to GTFO of your thread.
Suddenly I get the feeling that you do like drama, and that your statement that Elhonna was using borderline flaming is highly exaggerated.
See, this is the internet, you're bound to find jerks when grouping up with complete strangers, and jerks can be found in all forms and flavors, be them Healers, or DPS, or Tanks. Be them alliance or horde. Be them from pvp realms or pve realms.
You however wanna try to paint this as a tank issue. "its the tanks that are acting like jerks and over-reacting" then claim you want to "explore that would be part of the solution to this issue".
There are only 2 solutions that go hand in hand for this: Hunters switch off their growl, and jerks learn to play nice (be them tanks or not).
Trying to peg this on a very specific sub-group of people (Read: Tanks are jerks. Horde are Jerks. Alliance are Jerks. People from the realm Mal'ganis are jerks) is an incredibly naive and uninformed attitude to take.
And for the record, there are more nice people on the internet than the jerks. I've done hundreds of thousands of LFG runs since the system was added in WOTLK. If I were to count the number of truly annoying and jerkass people I've grouped up with, compared to the number of nice people I've grouped up with, the number of bad people gets MASSIVELY outnumbered in almost a 1-to-9 ratio.
I have high-lighted some of the key factors of why i posted... my thoughts. Perhaps the refrain from posting isn't for me. But whoever it is for, reading all of the posts.. i truly think you like attention. Rather then getting a answer. Most of the posts have answered what you have given us to read with what they think is the right thing to do / The correct way to act.
amount of rage my hunter gets from LFD tanks for not turning off Growl when I mindlessly AoE down another dungeon in between dailies is kind of
My Paladin and DK tanks also grind Valor through LFD, and
I couldn't care less
or confused DPS
mobs off of me
. It's not even worth the time it takes to write "turn off growl".
What's with this phenomenon
Please refrain from posting if you can't be bothered to read the thread.
Respect goes along way in life, why cause a problem when you can easy avoid. Is my answer.
Indeed, please "GTFO", as you so eloquently put it, if you're going to make up things up and spout nonsense. This whole topic is and can only be based on personal observation, which is why this thread exists in the first place, so talking about generalization has nothing to do with anything. Strength, Hit, Expertise, and Haste are excellent mitigation stats, for Paladins especially, so criticizing my choice to tank in DPS gear, which is vastly superior to any lowly tanking blues I could slap on instead, since, as I already stated, I do not tank outside of LFD, just underlines your lack of understanding. It seems like most people fail to understand what this thread is about, though, have nothing to contribute, or are just ignorant trolls, so it might as well be locked before it turns into just a pile of work for the mods. See ya.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##Thread locked at the request of the OP. See above.
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