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Holy Changes
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Post by
Xiamaru
Yay Divine Plea is made awesome now :P
It does irk me a bit that all our healing spells are getting a +10 % mana cost. The Lay on Hands trick is kinda sad to lose as well.
The Aura mastery change... nerf? is probably the weirdest thing I've seen on the patch notes in a long time. Really? No longer affects Crusader Aura? Why not? Is a 6 seconds mount sprint OP all of a sudden? O_o Was it really abused that badly by Holy Paladins in PvP to warrant that? ._. I'm genuinly baffled by that change. If it was never intended to work with Crusader aura, they sure took their time fixing it. So why now all of a sudden?
The Eternal Glory talent sounds awesome though. So we have a 30 % chance of not using up our Clearcasting? So maybe the added 10 % mana wont even effect us in the long run maybe? :P
What is your overall view on the Holy changes? Any of the changes that makes you smile/cry/rage? Considering the list probably doesn't change anymore, I thought it would be fun to hear the different opinions on how this would effect Holy when it hits live :P
Post by
123554
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Flonnette
Even improved, Divine Plea is still tricky and iffy to use. If things are going well, you don't need Divine Plea. If there is an emergency the last thing you use even at low/out of mana is Divine Plea.
The more I raid, the more Word of Glory is being used for off healing where I'm far more inclined to use Light of Dawn with 3 Holy Power instead (ie, I'm using it few and far between). It is getting difficult to find situations to use Word of Glory at all as Holy but that doesn't mean this isn't positive for others.
The serious change is the 10% more mana cost of Divine Light, Holy Light and Flash of Light. It won't break us but that should cause raiders to be more "careful" but probably has more of an effect on Prot and Ret.
Post by
Xiamaru
I thought the notes only mentioned the Clearcasting effect from Divine Purpose (which is a dep Ret talent). So this should not affect Holy. Right?
Ouch, I hadn't even noticed that... Damn :/
True about the DP however, but that's why you don't use it when you are low. If you are missing 20-30 % mana, and get a grace period, you use it. It may, or may not make a difference, but better safe than sorry, right? :P
I will also miss Aura Mastery for the gathering jobs >.< was awesome pulling +20 % additional master flying speed, even if it was only for a few seconds :P
Post by
581897
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Post by
Brique
They've been doing some soft nerfs, in my opinion. Not too bad. They're all across the board, but the stealthy 5% nerf to the 15%
Walk in the Light
was a bit surprising to see stacked into it. It's on live, even now, I'm reading.
Post by
773197
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Brique
This is BS! I went holy on my pally cuz they nerfed Ret. I spent soo much money and time on getting geared and trying to learn a good rotation and learn to manage my mana. Now they add % mana used to most the main healing spells and lay on hands isnt "the oh $%^& button" anymore? Ya we get a small thing with Divin Plea but its still not great!
The sky is
so
not falling. Your spells cost 1% to 3% more mana. A 10% increase to
30%
is 33%. Very very small tuning. It sucks that it happened, but it probably won't be that noticeable.
And Lay on Hands can't crit anymore. Not too horrible. It doesn't transfer over Beacon anymore, either. That's just disappointing. It still exists and it still is a stupidly large amount of healing on demand. No other class can heal for 100k in one GCD.
And am i the only one who thinks Light of Dawn is not even worth it? I use it and see NO ones health go up. I seem to think Word of glory is more affective but i keep seeing pallys use LOD and still dont know why? its a crappie heal. please someone tell me otherwise, i would love to know why i should use this...
LoD pulls ahead when it's hitting the full amount of targets it possibly can, with 50% of it being dumped onto your Beacon. Think raiding. In anything else, it's just as useless as it seems.
Post by
Xiamaru
This is BS! I went holy on my pally cuz they nerfed Ret. I spent soo much money and time on getting geared and trying to learn a good rotation and learn to manage my mana. Now they add % mana used to most the main healing spells and lay on hands isnt "the oh $%^& button" anymore? Ya we get a small thing with Divin Plea but its still not great!
The sky is
so
not falling. Your spells cost 1% to 3% more mana. A 10% increase to
30%
is 33%. Very very small tuning. It sucks that it happened, but it probably won't be that noticeable.
And Lay on Hands can't crit anymore. Not too horrible. It doesn't transfer over Beacon anymore, either. That's just disappointing. It still exists and it still is a stupidly large amount of healing on demand. No other class can heal for 100k in one GCD.
And am i the only one who thinks Light of Dawn is not even worth it? I use it and see NO ones health go up. I seem to think Word of glory is more affective but i keep seeing pallys use LOD and still dont know why? its a crappie heal. please someone tell me otherwise, i would love to know why i should use this...
LoD pulls ahead when it's hitting the full amount of targets it possibly can, with 50% of it being dumped onto your Beacon. Think raiding. In anything else, it's just as useless as it seems.
Agreed with the Lay on Hands. Sad, but probably a well deserved nerf. Think of it like this: Now it
only
heals for 100k. Previously, it could crit, AND healed the beacon for 50 %. That is a minimum of a 150k heal, for 1 GCD, with the possibility to heal even more. It was awesome, but perhaps a bit
too
awesome :P With the long CD anyway, however, I don't see it becoming that huge a problem. For PvP? I can't say. Probably a noticable nerf I'd assume. Someone who PvPs with holy will probably want to add on that.
LoD is rarely worth it in dungeons, if that is what you are trying to ask about. It was nerfed perhaps a bit too much, and hitting with it can be bothersome. The good part about it, is that LoD hits multiply targets. If your dungeon/heroic group is taking loads of damage (Like Lost City of Tol'vir), and things start to look bad, LoD can be a major help to give them those few extra seconds. WoG would be less effective, even if it heals for more, because you run a higher risk at having a dps dying that way.
The main issue with LoD, isn't LoD. Its weakness is positioning, and if people spread out after you told them to bunk up, it quickly becomes impossible to use LoD on your full party, and this diminishes LoDs usefulness a whole lot sadly.
Besides, the Divine Plea change is actually really nice. 15 seconds was too long to be of much use, but 9 seconds + additional mana regen, is awesome. Tap on the glyph if you really need it, and you have 18 % max mana regen wasn't it? That's awesome, for only 9 seconds. The drawback is still bad, but few fights have no grace periods, so it isn't exactly impossible to use this bad boy :P
Post by
hawke
No other class can heal for 100k in one GCD.
And it's off the GCD now, too, wich make it even more awesome :).
Post by
Flonnette
Good catch Brique. The change to
is also important to note. I'm never comfortable when Blizzard is changing both costs and effects. I hope they do this correctly.
Post by
APAV
Fear not, Flonnette, check out this blue post:
Right, kind of. We discovered that Conviction (which can give up to a 9% healing bonus) was broken. It affected paladin self heals, but not healing other targets. Since we think that paladin healing throughput is in an overall good place we didn't want a 9% bonus sticking around. So we fixed Conviction and reduced the Holy passive, Walk in the Light, from 15% to 10%. Which actually does end up with a net 4% gain overall, assuming Conviction has near 100% uptime, which isn't too unreasonable.
Since it was applied in a hotfix the Walk in the Light tooltip won't be updated until 4.0.6.
Link:
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/153900/additional-5-nerf-to-paladin-healing
Overall, its only a slight barely noticeable nerf, with the exception to LoH. But I think they balance that well with the buff to Divine Plea.
Post by
Xiamaru
Fear not, Flonnette, check out this blue post:
Right, kind of. We discovered that Conviction (which can give up to a 9% healing bonus) was broken. It affected paladin self heals, but not healing other targets. Since we think that paladin healing throughput is in an overall good place we didn't want a 9% bonus sticking around. So we fixed Conviction and reduced the Holy passive, Walk in the Light, from 15% to 10%. Which actually does end up with a net 4% gain overall, assuming Conviction has near 100% uptime, which isn't too unreasonable.
Since it was applied in a hotfix the Walk in the Light tooltip won't be updated until 4.0.6.
Link:
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/153900/additional-5-nerf-to-paladin-healing
Overall, its only a slight barely noticeable nerf, with the exception to LoH. But I think they balance that well with the buff to Divine Plea.
Awesome Conviction fix! Last time I saw this being discussed, someone had a reply from a GM that Conviction was working as intended (only applying to self-healing).
Nice to hear we are getting it back :P Back with those 3 points now xD I do, however, disagree a bit that they claim Conviction isn't too unreasonable to see with a 100 % uptime... I guess I must be needed a whole bunch of crit if this is true, at least.
Post by
Raleandris
Nice to hear we are getting it back :P Back with those 3 points now xD I do, however, disagree a bit that they claim Conviction isn't too unreasonable to see with a 100 % uptime... I guess I must be needed a whole bunch of crit if this is true, at least.
I don't think it's too unreasonable. Even in mostly 333/277 gear, I can still fairly easily keep up conviction when I have the ability to stand and cast. And hell, if you
really
want Conviction stacks, and you want it now, push Holy Radiance moar.
Post by
pezz
Wait, sorry, so is Conviction fixed
now
, or on the PTR? Just so I know if I should respec yet.
Post by
TehScat
Fixed now via hotfix, and live, but tooltips won't be updated until 4.06. Walk in the Light is only 10% now although the tooltip says 15%. Conviction works on others right now, on live.
With Holy Radiance on a 30 second cooldown, 10 second duration, and conviction has a 15 second duration, its fairly safe to assume 100% uptime. A lot of holy pallies are starting to round off their 4-piece T11 bonus, making Holy Radiance pretty much a no-brainer to use on cooldown anyway, so you only need one crit between Holy Radiance's to keep that 5 seconds of uncovered uptime going.
0: Cast HR
10: HR ends. Conviction should be refreshed at close to 15s
25: Conviction ends if you didn't get any crits
30: Cast HR again.
Between T=15 and T=25 you need one crit to maintain 100% uptime. Even if it drops, it won't be more than 5 seconds before your HR stacks it back up again quick-smart!
The sky is very much not falling. Its quite secure up there. I know a 10% increase on my spam heals won't break the bank. If you're having mana issues, JUDGE MOAR!
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