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I need help understand Armor Penetration
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Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Liquoid
In that particular example your 50% ArP rating would let your physical attacks ignore 50% of the target's current armor, which is already reduced by Sunder Armor. So yes, it would ignore 400 Armor and not 500.
Post by
143352
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Post by
Liquoid
So if someone had 100% ArP, the sunder armor stacked 5 times (20% armor reduction) would be useless?
no.
Post by
143352
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Post by
343569
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zxian
So if someone had 100% ArP, the sunder armor stacked 5 times (20% armor reduction) would be useless?
no.
Why?
Your ArP is calculated after the mayor debuffs. For example, lets say you'll penetrate 50%. That means that our of the 80% armor the boss has left after SA or EA you'll ignore 40% of it.
Forgive the growing quote pyramid, but the original question was actually correct.
If you have 100% ArP, you ignore all armor.
Sunder armor reduces armor from 100% to 80%. You then ignore all of the remaining 80%, making the "effective" armor 0.
Without sunder armor, you ignore all of the 100%, making the "effective" armor 0.
With 100% ArP, any armor reducing debuffs on the target have no effect to your personal DPS. If you are not at 100% ArP, then any armor reducing debuffs are applied first, then ArP is calculated.
Post by
hashmel
ArP is calculated as such
A * (1 - B) * (1 - C) = D
where
A = the amount of armor your opponent has
B = the amount of armor reduction from debuffs (Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire, etc.)
C = the amount of armor penetration you have (gear, procs, talents, stance, etc.)
D = the amount of effective armor you opponent has left
Say your opponent has both a 5 stack sunder and faerie fire, you have 10% armor penetration, and you opponent has 30,000 armor.
30,000 * (1 -
0.2
-
0.05
) * (1 - 0.1) = 20,250
Now let's say you have 100% armor pen, no armor debuffs on the opponent, and they have 30,000 armor.
30,000 * (1 - 0) * (1 - 1) = 0
Now let's say you have 100% armor pen, your opponent has 30,000 armor, and they have both faerie fire and a 5 stack sunder.
30,000 * (1 -
0.2
-
0.05
) * (1 - 1) = 0
Once you're at 100% any additional armor effects are absolutely pointless, be it armor debuffs, the opponent's armor buffs, or any additional armor penetration as you'll always treat them as if they had 0 armor.
Post by
Liquoid
If you have the whole raid of melees stacked up to the hardcap, yes, a Sunder Armor won't mean a thing to them. But does that happen often?
Post by
Ippon
Forgive the growing quote pyramid, but the original question was actually correct.
If you have 100% ArP, you ignore all armor.
Sunder armor reduces armor from 100% to 80%. You then ignore all of the remaining 80%, making the "effective" armor 0.
Without sunder armor, you ignore all of the 100%, making the "effective" armor 0.
With 100% ArP, any armor reducing debuffs on the target have no effect to your personal DPS. If you are not at 100% ArP, then any armor reducing debuffs are applied first, then ArP is calculated.This is not correct. 100% ArP DOES NOT mean that you attack as if the target had 0 armor. It means that adding more ArP will not help you, but "100%" ArP is not actually 100%. I don't recall the formula off the top of my head, but you can likely find it on Wowiki, or you can pull it from the GT X or MR X rows in Ald's Combat sheet.
tldr version: Sunder increases your DPS even if you have 100% ArP.
Post by
hashmel
Please ignore Ippon as they're both misinformed and too "uber" to read two posts above them that shows the formula they seem to have "forgotten" and proves based on it that with 100% ArP sunder, faerie fire, and the like are of no benefit to an individual.
Who knew 100% would actually mean 100% right?
Post by
Liquoid
Please ignore Ippon as they're both misinformed and too "uber" to read two posts above them that shows the formula they seem to have "forgotten" and proves based on it that with 100% ArP sunder, faerie fire, and the like are of no benefit to an individual.
Who knew 100% would actually mean 100% right?
You are wrong. At no point a mob will have 0 armor, even if you have 100% ArP. Mob would still have some armor left, as confirmed by Ghostcrawler once in a blue post. I will find a link to the post at some point.
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PessimiStick
Please ignore Ippon as they're both misinformed and too "uber" to read two posts above them that shows the formula they seem to have "forgotten" and proves based on it that with 100% ArP sunder, faerie fire, and the like are of no benefit to an individual.
Who knew 100% would actually mean 100% right?
Grats on being smug while being wrong.
100% ArP IS NOT THE SAME AS ignoring 100% of an arbitrary target's armor.
Sunder and FF increase DPS on a raidboss for players with hardcapped ArP.
Fact. Period. The End. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PessimiStick
Somethin' like that. =p
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