If your a Mage grab some Kleenex because you will get teary eyed..

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Post by Blightman

Very well debated.
Win goes to Gnamy.

QFT

Lol at y'all cheering Gnamy "proving" that mages are inferior to locks.

Post by Ethix

uhh

welcome to like 3 weeks ago.

Post by Aarpia

You can argue that mages do more damage than locks, but the fact is they don't.
End.

Post by Blightman

You don't get to AE spam in MH (or any other higher level instance), because:
a) Too much mana costs.
b) Getting close to mobs means death. (Think of the Abominations in MH.)
c) Seriously, WAY too much mana costs.

For controlled AoE damage (Again, like in MH trash. It's one of the only real AoE situations I can think off really.), SoC outperforms any Mage-AoE.

SoC outperforms any Mage-AoE.

...as for your comment about AE spamming in Hyjal, run your self oom every trash pull with it, mana gem to get up if you need to keep going... Aboms won't kill you...the only thing that will kill you is pulling aggro...

Scratches head and wonders about this then...
Theoretically, sure mages should be top dog. In practise, it's always the warlocks topping damage meters on Mount Hyal trash. SoC can be spammed, and you might get off as much as 3 on several targets before they all go up. Blizzard has to be channeled, and mainly functions to set off SoC :S

Spamming AE is not a viable option, as it's very mana intensive, and many mobs tend to turn around and give you a little 10k lovetap if you're that close.

edit: AE statement

Here is a WWS from the first three bosses in MH. As you can see, All three mages are above the two warlocks in damage...the two arcane mages spamming AE significantly so.

http://wowwebstats.com/my61jedccczq1

Post by Blightman

You can argue that mages do more damage than locks, but the fact is they don't.
End.

Was never my argument. Go read my posts before Gnamy started spouting crud about locks:
Oops, that's my mistake. I thought SoC was instant. My bad, I apologize.

It is very simple, are mages king of DPS? Nope, no class will ever be king of DPS. Different fights will favor different classes. Mages are king of AoE DPS and the biggest problem is that few boss encounters rely on AoE.

Could mages use some new AoE spells? Yes, they could. Specifically they could use a more mobile, fire and forget type AoE. I threw out some ideas along those lines.

Post by 102386

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Post by Blightman

And I don't see what you're trying to prove with your damage output page... It doesn't show what fight it is, it doesn't show any gear, it doesn't show what spells they used.

What it DOES show:
The (two upper) mages did more damage than the two locks below them, but:
a) More "Presence %".
b) More "DPS time%".

So if I interpret these numbers correctly (I could very well be wrong; its' the first time I saw that site and I'm just trying to make sense out of the random numbers it throws at my face.), the mages did 12% damage with 36% DPS time, while the locks did 8% damage with 25% DPS time. Two-third DPS over two-third the time?

Anyway, Arcane Mages can spam Arcane Explosion, if you want to sacrifice your single-target DPS.
None of the locks had to spec SoC for it, did they?

You have said repeatedly that AE spam in MH is not a valid tactic, this WWS shows :

The top 3 damage dealers in the MH raid were mages
They did 81% /87%/59% of their damage respectively with AE
On rage Winter chill the top 2 DSPers were mages, they did 99% of their damage with AE.

I get that you don't know how to use the page. Play with it more and learn how to pick which fight to look at the #'s for, and what spells were used in which fight. There is also a link to the character's armory profile.

Sadly the lock's armory shows them logged out in PvP gear so there is no way to determine their gear level.

Post by Blightman

Yes, the crud about Shadow Bolt which I then backed up with numbers.

No you did not back it up with numbers you just threw out some percentages without tying in the base spell damages, all relevant talents for Fbl or SB, and then conveniently ignoring some buffs to the Fbl

Throw it down Gnamy. Pick a spell damage level, link a talent tree for the mage and the lock, layout the cast sequences, do the math and show your work. That is showing me the numbers and convincing me

Post by 1212_

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Post by Blightman

I have not seen anything in the new talent/spells that will give mages that last little bit they need to be the undisputed AoE champ's.

Some Ideas would be:

Fire tree - change Living Bomb to cause a TARGET to become the living bomb, would need to add in a cast time and maybe up the mana cost.
Arcane Tree - Arcane Mine - creates an arcane mine that does an arcane explosion every 3s for 9 seconds. After each explosion the mine will move toward the next nearest enemy
Frost tree- Arctic Gale - does damage to all enemies within 20yrds of the eye of the storm. If the Gale is cast at a target the target will be in the eye and take no damage unless they move. If the eye is cast on an area it will slowly move towards the nearest enemy

Would give mages of each tree a fire-n-forget type AoE that is not fixed in place

Apparently Blizz Is listening:

Living Bomb changed : The target becomes a Living Bomb, taking 1380 Fire damage over 12 sec. After 12 sec or when the spell is dispelled, the target explodes dealing 690 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards and knocking all targets up in the air. This spell can only affect one target at a time. (1010 Mana, 35 yd range, Instant cast)

Post by 172710

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Post by 172710

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Post by Blightman

sidenote reagarding warlocks

from what i have seen and from the math i'm read, warlocks have the ability to out dmg mages by decent %. it takes very good gear to get to the point, however as gear increases the margin becomes aparent and increases vastly. this is especially true if there are 2 or 3 well geared warlocks in the raid as they can kep their crit buff up nearly 100% of time for each other. this combined with a shadow priest can cause numbers to stretch to quite large extremes. however, warlocks lose a chunk of versatility in this way, b/c to do this, there are no pets out.

I hate that the best raid spec currently for locks is based on pew-pewing with no pet. Fortunately in WotLk , they will be re-emphasizing dots/pets for locks so that they should be less mage like and mor e warlocky.

Post by 132441

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Post by Blightman

Before I start I would like to remind everyone that I haven't been reading all the posts here so I'm probably off-topic. Who gives a rat's butt if mages aren't the kings of dps or AoE or whatever, we are always in demand for CC as far as I'm concerned. Even if we're NOT in demand in WOTLK, it doesn't mean im gonna re-roll a different toon just cos some jerk 'needs' me to. I love my mage atm and play as any class I damn well want and I certainly won't let anything stop me from doing so. Personally I think alot of people play this game how other people want them to.

Ps - Fire Mage all the way baby \m/ \m/

/BRAVO Well said

Post by 1212_

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Post by 158587

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Post by Blightman

very nice guys worth time to read all....havnt read anything about pvp (arena) yet. i have a feeling tat mage players going to have a hard time owning ppl with "king of AOE" hopefully they give us 10mil mana!

Look at improved water elemental and think about it some....3% of TOTAL mana every 5s

Post by manicmania

DUDE!

we are the best ranged dps dealers in the game, and now there making us less powerful than locks!
this is total bull!

they better give us a massive intellect boost because aoe is hard to kill things with that actually yield xp at your level >.<

Post by 176543

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