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Imp scorch...any use anymore?
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Post by
Sgtpain
If I planned on speccing fire and using a FFB, LB, pyro rotation, would there be any benefit to taking imp scorch in the talent tree? Perhaps it has some use in heroics? Is there a better rotation for heroics, since the mobs are going down faster than that rotation takes?
Post by
60300
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Post by
Sgtpain
I can't think of any fire build that
doesn't
include 3 points in Imp Scorch. Combined with the Imp. Scorch glyph it is a very useful talent.
Maybe that's why I am asking. Everyone just assumes that Imp scorch is needed, but with a FFB build, it's not used in a raid setting. Is there another reason to get it if the rotation doesn't include scorch? For instance, would it be applied for anything else?
Post by
164887
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Post by
Rakydae
Why dont you use scorch in your rotation? its very useful. Generally i put LB up, scorch twice, and then just spam FFB, renewing my LB and using Pyro when it procs. I wouldnt know a single reason for not putting imp scorch in your talent build, because it adds 10% crit chance to the mob FOR EVERY DPS CASTER IN YOUR RAID. and since you're very depending on crits yourself with a FFB spec, 10% extra crit chance is not going to hurt your DPS at all
Post by
Sgtpain
Why dont you use scorch in your rotation? its very useful. Generally i put LB up, scorch twice, and then just spam FFB, renewing my LB and using Pyro when it procs. I wouldnt know a single reason for not putting imp scorch in your talent build, because it adds 10% crit chance to the mob FOR EVERY DPS CASTER IN YOUR RAID. and since you're very depending on crits yourself with a FFB spec, 10% extra crit chance is not going to hurt your DPS at all
Max dps.com shows a reduction in dps when you add scorch into the rotation. Also, I read on EJ also that scorch doesn't produce the results it used to. If you are spamming FFB, then you're not taking advantage of the DoT. You should be rotating between pyro and FFB at the very least.
Post by
Chickensoup
at least one mage in a raid needs to have improved scorch or winters chill, straight up.
If you have a frost mage in your raid they are going to have winters chill and have it up at all times no matter what. Scorch shows a decrease in your own personal DPS according to theorycrafting BUT it raises the DPS of every single caster in the raid by waaaaaaay more than what little you lose tossing 2 scorches at the beginning of a fight and one every 30 seconds.
If you do heroics at all, or are the lone mage in a raid, improved scorch is a must in a standard FFB build. If there are multiple mages....well choose who is speccing improved scorch and suck up the minimal DPS los you take to add a great benefit to the entire raid
Post by
60300
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Post by
150866
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Post by
Sgtpain
I was reading the rotation wrong, sorry everyone. The rotation is FFB, keep LB up, and pyro when it procs.
Considering what crit does for this build, I am now baffled why dps is showing it as being lower when you apply scorch. I am going to just have to test it out myself.
That said, this looks really nice. Having the option to still blizzard, and the amount of damage that FFB looks like it can do it really awsome.
Please don't tell me there are plans on nerfing this build before I get to raid with it. :(
Post by
150866
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Post by
nickseng
I was reading the rotation wrong, sorry everyone. The rotation is FFB, keep LB up, and pyro when it procs.
Considering what crit does for this build, I am now baffled why dps is showing it as being lower when you apply scorch. I am going to just have to test it out myself.
Because scorch by itself does low damage.
Whenever you're interrupting your rotation to apply scorch, your average dps dips. The 10% extra crit doesn't quite cover the dps loss, but we do it because it does buff the entire raid.
All you have to do to test it is to go to any target dummy, and do your normal rotations with scorch in it. Then repeat it, except omit scorch. You'd see that without casting scorch, your dps does go up by a tiny bit.
Post by
150866
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Post by
213461
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Post by
297245
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Post by
shadow1515
Well, just for some very rough theorycraft let's take a situation where you have 0 crit, 0 haste, and you have imp. scorch with the glyph.
In 33 seconds you can cast 11 FFBs. Mine hit for around 3k, so that's 33k damage. My scorches hit for 1k, so if you instead start your rotation with 2 of those you have only done 1k damage less, but increased your crit chance by 10%. My FFB crits for around 8k, and with the two scorches in the beginning I only have time to cast 10 FFBs. If exactly one of those (10% from the imp. scorch debuff) crits, that's an extra 5k damage to my total.
So in 33 seconds, I have lost 1k damage by casting scorch but gained another 5k from the debuff, for a net gain of 4k damage in 33 seconds. This isn't even considering the ignite DoT, which would add even more damage.
The actual situation is more complicated, but it seems like the increased crit chance far outweighs the small drop in DPS from casting scorch.
Post by
nickseng
Oy, foot, meet mouth.
I was still thinking in terms of Fireball. Frostfire bolt scales incredibly well with crit, so yeah, Imp. Scorch is a dps increase for FFB specs.
Don't mind me. :(
Post by
150866
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