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More Imagination Needed on PVP Gear...
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Post by
DJC75
So this has been bugging me.
Resilience has always struck me as a pretty lazy solution to the problem of distinguishing between PVE and PVP gear. Apart from anything else it's far more or far less useful depending on class, spec and playstyle (I have very little use for 45% dmg reduction on my rogue) yet we're stuck with it across the board and can't even reforge out of it.
So when I heard this was going to be reworked in MOP I thought 'Oh Good'. But it seems it's going to be more or less the same, just with a new stat called 'PVP Power' added.
So we're still going to have our two sets of more-or-less compulsory PVP gear - honour and conquest (and they only differ in degrees of stat level). Maybe we have a few choices to make, sometimes (do I want spirit or haste on my holy pally boots? Crit or resil. on my trinket?) but otherwise it's 'Get what you're given' and it seems that's not changing even with the new expac.
This seems to me to be a missed opportunity - PVE gear comes in all manner of flavours and balances with various procs and stat weights, but for PVP we're forced into, effectively, one gear build.
"You can just mix in PVE gear with your PVP gear" True but that's an imperfect solution at best. And anyway isn't the whole point of having seperate types of gear so that people can play the game the way they want without being punished with sub-par equipment? If you have to run heroic raids to be optimum in PVP then something's gone wrong, surely?
Think of all the ways they could have tackled this instead of a simple damage reduction/boost. They could have made a set of top level PVP gear carrying stuff like; reduction in duration of player stuns, chance to resist player fear effects, take control of a player pet, player spell reflect, reduce certain cooldowns in BG and arena, etc. etc. etc.
We'd have far more customisation options, far more exciting PVP matches and players who drop in to BGs in PVE gear would get their asses kicked in the way we all love to see :-)
They could go further - maybe have some pieces of gear only drop when you cap three bases in a single battle, or hold a base for x amount of time. This would be a nice way to encourage people to fight at objectives.
I know the devs don't read these boards, I just want to see if anyone else agrees with me. I appreciate it would be hella difficult to balance but isn't that what the devs get paid to do?
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
327123
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Post by
cloudp
I agree 100% with the OP. Gearing should be a fair portion of the experience. If one wants fairness in outcomes, go play dice. Dice always even out. Or if one wants perfect skill to always win, why gear at all? Just make PvP naked-only. That way only skill matters.
Because scaling affects some classes more than others. Season 9 balance is not Season 11 balance.
So we're still going to have our two sets of more-or-less compulsory PVP gear - honour and conquest (and they only differ in degrees of stat level). Maybe we have a few choices to make, sometimes (do I want spirit or haste on my holy pally boots? Crit or resil. on my trinket?) but otherwise it's 'Get what you're given' and it seems that's not changing even with the new expac.
Agreed thus far; they could create mutiple gearsets with equivalent amounts of secondary stats to allow for choice to factor. However...
Think of all the ways they could have tackled this instead of a simple damage reduction/boost. They could have made a set of top level PVP gear carrying stuff like; reduction in duration of player stuns, chance to resist player fear effects, take control of a player pet, player spell reflect, reduce certain cooldowns in BG and arena, etc. etc. etc.
Careful. I know it's fun and all, but nothing is more detrimental to balanced matches than what you suggest. Reducing CC duration is a huge impact on play and specific compositions. If they up the duration of some CC to counter this, lower levels of play become unbearable. Chances to resist or reflect are always horrible design choices. "WTH I lost a match because a 1% proc chance reflected my Polymorph!" is not very fun.
Having each set piece affect a spell cooldown or effect, however, would certainly be fun and far more reasonable to balance, but I just find it doubtful that it would provide choice. If they made, say, a chest piece removing the cooldown on Mind Blast for priests, they'd have to make an equally powerful second chest piece to provide choice, and that's just for Shadow... you can see the issue. That's around 29 specs possible (5 tanks excluded), each requiring a unique effect... even if some could be shared, that'd not be an easy feat. Especially with the introduction of a brand new class with a new array of balancing issues arising.
At least theoretically, PvP power will solve the gap. I agree that for an easy fix more sets with varying secondary stats would be awsome, and a viable thing to consider. "Funnier" options though... I'd rather see how the first season with Monks around unravels first.
Post by
DJC75
Thanks for the responses guys.
In a PvE system gear has to drop.
Now you add drops to a PvP situation and you might encourage players to attack bases for a short time, but then greed takes over.
Agreed, but it wouldn't have to drop in precisely the same way as in PVE, there wouldn't have to be rolls as such, maybe everyone who defends a base for x amount of time gets something suitable for their class that can't be bought with HP/CP? Something like that maybe?
And yeah, people probably would drop the BG once they got/failed to get the bit of gear they wanted, but so many people already quit the minute the opposition score one flag cap (or whatever) that I don't think this would make that much difference.
I don't know how others feel about it, but personally I think there has to be some kind of gear plateau in PvP so it eventually becomes more about skill than who has the best gear with the best set bonus..
Again I agree completely, but I think we can still have more choice on how we get there, and maybe even a few legitimate options as to exactly what constitutes that plateau, rather than a screamingly obvious BiS list.
That's around 29 specs possible (5 tanks excluded), each requiring a unique effect... even if some could be shared, that'd not be an easy feat. Especially with the introduction of a brand new class with a new array of balancing issues arising.
Yeah it'd be a massive job, maybe even impossible and, as you say, we may just end up in the same place where once all the numbers have been run there's the same set of compulsory BiS gear and that's the end of it. But right now it doesn't seem like there's even much of an effort being made, if 'PVP Power' is the best idea.
(btw - Do we know if Off/Def PVP Power will be reforgeable into each other?)
Of course the nature of the game is that two seconds after anything is released someone's run the numbers, worked out the perfect set-up and is busy 'lol-ing' at anyone who doesn't follow suit.
But personally I'd be happy playing with a setup that was perhaps, mathematically, slightly less than optimal if it suited my playstyle more. But right now there aren't really any options like that for PVP gear - it's a straight ladder and that's it.
I don't think it has to be that way - balancing spirit and crit on a holy pally is a good example of a meaningful choice players can already make to customise their build to their playstyle. I'm sure there are sums to work out what the optimum balance is but it'll never be totally clear cut as it's so situational.
I daresay there are similar choices for other classes, but we could do with a lot more, in my humble opinion.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
SoulflameTB
Think of all the ways they could have tackled this instead of a simple damage reduction/boost. They could have made a set of top level PVP gear carrying stuff like; reduction in duration of player stuns, chance to resist player fear effects, take control of a player pet, player spell reflect, reduce certain cooldowns in BG and arena, etc. etc. etc.
Maybe I'm missing something, here, but can't
you
already
do
that
if
you
want
? If you're holding out for god-mode, that's not going to happen. If you know which enemy abilities are your weakest link and want choices as to how to shore them up, you already have that.
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