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Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
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Post by
LookOut
even all those demo talents don't actually increase hellfire's output, just its usability.
Well I don't know if it's comparable really, since no one used it in wotlk because it damaged the caster as well. But tbh I have been thinking exactly the same thing.
I just did my pve spec again in the calculator, and I only had 1 point that I had to waste in either Demonic Embrace, Demonic Aegis or Improved Health Funnel.
Like this.
Points from Improved SF might go into Improved Immo, but with felfire and HoG refreshing it, I dunno how good it'll be.
Edit: also, seems it isn't mentionned in here (not really THAT important either, but anyways), but a lot of spells got their range increased. Seems we'll be standing further away in Cata ^_^
(if HoG stays 30 yd range though, it'll change nothing for demo :-/ )
Post by
asakawa
yeah, when i quoted the changes to this thread i cut out all the range increases.
regarding your spec, you say that you only had one point left over but you have 2 in rebirth, 2 in mana feed and 2 in master summoner which all seem pretty surplus to requirements.
-what demon needs 120% of our LT mana? one point for 60% is more than enough.
-as we discussed rebirth surely isn't going to be that useful. we don't want our pets to die so 2 whole talent points seems like a terrible waste to save 4.5 seconds on that rare occasion.
-similarly, master summoner. we don't care about the mana reduction and 1 second for 2 talent points is ridiculous.
basically i see one point that's worth spending in the second tier (1/2 mana feed) and nothing that would tempt aff or destro to sub-spec into tier two demo.
going back to what i was saying about +fire damage i was completely forgetting that destro gets passive +fire damage from choosing destro. perhaps this will be enough to put RoF on top once the numbers all settle down.
this doesn't solve the demo issue though.
...so go with me here, what i'd like to see is a secondary benefit to demo using hellfire instead of seed. how about a talent that adds the effect, "
if your demon is in range of your hellfire effect it also ignites the surrounding area causing 20% of the master's hellfire effect
". (it could be worded better >.< also, 20% might be WAY too much)
this would give a real benefit to going into close range to AoE and has some demonology flavour.
Post by
LookOut
regarding your spec, you say that you only had one point left over but you have 2 in rebirth, 2 in mana feed and 2 in master summoner which all seem pretty surplus to requirements.
-what demon needs 120% of our LT mana? one point for 60% is more than enough.
-as we discussed rebirth surely isn't going to be that useful. we don't want our pets to die so 2 whole talent points seems like a terrible waste to save 4.5 seconds on that rare occasion.
-similarly, master summoner. we don't care about the mana reduction and 1 second for 2 talent points is ridiculous.
Yeah well, I'm used to taking those talents right now, that's why I took them. Demonic Rebirth ... I dunno, health funnel doesn't look that useful either. What do you suggest yourself? Both demonic aegis and demonic embrace?
Edit: going back to what i was saying about +fire damage i was completely forgetting that destro gets passive +fire damage from choosing
demo
.
o_O
Post by
DraconisAerius
I'm just guessing here but I'm fairly sure that just from the mastery bonus alone RoF is going to do far more dps than seed for destro. Hellfire probly will too since it's fire damage.
Post by
Rekijan
Darn it, I got all excited when I heard Soul Link was going to be baseline. You know, thinking I could make one affliction build for pve and pvp at the same time. But a pvp-er still needs to go demo to make sure his pet is viable, but loses out on damage increases from destro.
Post by
asakawa
Edit: going back to what i was saying about +fire damage i was completely forgetting that destro gets passive +fire damage from choosing
demo
.
o_O
>.< typo
Post by
289853
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
i think that was in reference to my earlier musing about how blizz would define the AoEs for each spec. i was noticing the lack of emberstorm (and shadow mastery) as a percentage increase and missing the fact that the percentage talents are now spec passives (i think it's time to move away from calling those "masteries" now that model has changed) and increased from 15 to 25%.
i did point that out a little after but perhaps it bears repeating, i dunno.
Post by
DraconisAerius
i think it's time to move away from calling those "masteries" now that model has changed
Agreed. Mastery doesn't seem to fit if you know what I mean. Mastery of a spec, to me, is getting the talent that is at the bottom of the tree, like chaos bolt etc.
Post by
649534
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
Doomguard and Infernal do not despawn your current demon in cata. I would presume that Bane of Doom does summon a Doomguard since both have Doom in the name. Demo will most likely still be going destro as its secondary tree since soul fire, with
Decimation
, far out strips drain soul due to your demo build not having access to talents such as
Death's Embrace
,
Everlasting Affliction
and
Pandemic
. Especially with 2/2 in
Mana Feed
being way over the top you just don't need that kind of mana regen for your demon. The big thing about using drain soul as a finisher for demo is that it doesn't refresh those other effects and doesn't get the extra shadow damage from Death's Embrace.
Post by
LookOut
I would presume that Bane of Doom does summon a Doomguard since both have Doom in the name.
Bane
vs
Curse
.
So Bane does damage twice in the 1 min CD, and will have a change of spawning a Doomguard on damage instead of on "kill that yields experience or honor". Actually, it says Demon Guard, so either it's renamed, or it's a third type of guardian pet!
Never noticed that change, but I LOVE it :D So now it can even spawn on bosses, but it's very RNG. I'm seeing lock dps being pretty spikey because of this (meaning having good or bad luck on guard spawns).
I'm also curious what Impending Doom will do. Does that mean it'll do damage every 15 secs, i.e. 4 times in the 1 min CD?
Post by
DraconisAerius
It would be incredibly OP to be every 15 seconds. I mean with my current spell power on my toon that would be like 7k hit every 15 seconds from an instant cast spell. And on top of that you have 4 25% chances each minute to spawn that guardian.
Post by
649534
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Post by
539323
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
289853
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
the following is in reply to ceilia - i took my time writing up the response >.<
BoD is a strange spell under the cata rule-set.
it's a DoT which means that to benefit properly from haste it will need to be refreshed before it drops off the mob (the reasons for this are being described and discussed in
this thread
).
impending doom, as you describe it, basically allows demo to have a doom that does benefit from haste while other specs will not. this may be the case but it makes other specs feel broken rather than feeling like a perk to demo.
what needs to be done with doom (in my humblest) is it needs to have its cooldown removed but make it one of those spells that can only be cast on a single target at a time (like
devouring plague
and other similar spells). then impending doom needs to give BoD something like 3% haste per point spent (along with the other effect).
this means that all specs can refresh doom properly but demo gets faster ticks allowing them to get the most benefit from the random spawning guardian pet.
as it is the talent says "Reduces the cooldown of the Bane of Doom
damage effect
by 15 sec". blizz isn't always great at tooltip wording but this doesn't suggest spell cooldown but tick timer. however, 15seconds is way OP is this is the case.
more info required!
regarding mana feed, 2/2 is way too much using current numbers (which i expect to change) and grimoire is far too nice a talent to pass up even before we know exactly how strong the guardian demons will be.
i really think that aff will remain a very lacklustre secondary tree for demo and you've skipped some major talents in your build. you simply can't miss out on decimation and bane. i understand why you want to look into the aff tree since demo does use those spells (and bane DPET is so high) but looking at where the actual demo damage comes from you'll see that it's the destro spells not the DoTs that get the job done. the DoTs provide support for the most part with doom ticks giving guardian procs and corruption proccing MC.
i would suggest looking more along
these lines
. the low demo talents are entirely moveable as all are dubious/"situational" (grimoire is not in the situational group). also we'll need numbers to determine whether improving immo is better than the alternatives in the destro tree.
@pilda
demo
i would argue that demonic embrace is far more important than the whole of tier two (except 1/2 mana feed) and impHF
aff
i would guess that the second point in nightfall will be the optional one. if blizz achieve what they're intending with healing in cata we may want to take a point in fel synergy (we may want to anyway depending on some of the encounters) and even improved soulfire oughtn't be overlooked until we get chance to theorycraft it out properly. since all specs will have access to an instant SF by buring a shard it may become the accepted way that warlocks start all boss fights...
destro
no major disagreements but fel synergy is again questionable, as is mana feed and jinx is tempting in tier 2 aff but may just not be worth it. i would probably say that for raiding backlash > nether prot simply because it does give damage if you are hit. nether prot needs consistent damage of a particular type which may well be there in the fights but we'll have to see.
Post by
darkdog
Anyone know if all dots will be affected by haste/crit in cata (heard a rumor long ago)
Post by
asakawa
yes all DoTs and HoTs are effected as standard. this has been covered in this thread and all around the interweb.
what needs to be done with doom (in my humblest) is it needs to have its cooldown removed but make it one of those spells that can only be cast on a single target at a time (like
devouring plague
and other similar spells). then impending doom needs to give BoD something like 3% haste per point spent (along with the other effect).
this means that all specs can refresh doom properly but demo gets faster ticks allowing them to get the most benefit from the random spawning guardian pet.
in fact, having given it some more thought, i think a much simpler thing would be to scrap the reduction on the impending doom talent (whether it was cooldown OR tick reduction) and place the random spawning guardian pet in that talent as a demo only thing.
if a standard doom can produce guardians and there are no talents in aff that specifically improve agony and not doom then there is no good reason for aff to cast agony in the regular rotation. doom will do comparable damage and spawn pets.
random guardians fits far better with the feel of demo and allows agony to be tuned a little higher for affliction locks without tempting demo to use it too.
Post by
289853
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