This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.

Question on the disc priests healing

Post by MagisterSJHC

Ok, question here from someone who is not a priest himself. Yesterday on Marrowgar we failed, mainly due to the healing failing (and admittedly, some tards standing in fire too long). We had a healadin, disc priest and a druid. The druid was raid healing, the healadin and the priest on the tanks.

However, we failed to kill Marrowgear, mostly because the tanks kept dying. Every time the pally was spiked, the tanks died soon after. And yes, at the start the tank sometimes got separated, but that was not happening on the later wipes.

So we checked the healing, and the fact that tanks kept dying each time the pally was incapacitated triggered us to check the healing of the disc priest especially. Recount showed the pally doing 4K Hps on average, the druid 3K Hps and the priest doing 1,2K HPS. He blamed the low numbers on the Recount.

Now I know that recount does not show the damage prevented by PW:S, but 1,2K still looks kind of low to me. The dsc priest is fully T9 geared, and his gems, enchants and specc show nothing out of the ordinary.

My question: can Recount really hide that much healing (or damage prevented) or was the priest just failing and covering up by blaming Recount. I am just asking because I really don’t know, so I would like to hear it from disc priests themselves.

Post by 328121

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by 312967

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by MagisterSJHC

Thanks already.

Also you mentioning these spells helps too, because that is something that can be checked in Recount. If I see those spells I know a bit more at least.

And yeah, this group was probably made of too many ppl failing (the other raid group made it to Deatwhisper at least) and we are a pretty casual guild. Just trying to figure out who were failing here.

Post by maverikku

Im never one to rely on recount to judge a disc priest....but all that gear and still only 1.2 HPS? That is low.

There's only so much shielding you can do if you're soley responsible for 2 targets. He needs to be spamming his flash heal / prayer of mending / penance / renew like they were going outta style.

You can check his mana pool for a *quick* glance at whether he's doing anything outside of shielding.

But again, without more info... like combat logs... it's hard to say if he was just bad or not.

Post by karlusdavius

OK.

Yes recount is not great at looking at what disc does, but you can't hide behind that fact if you suck all the time. 1.2k HPS even for a discipline priest is low. He obviously wasn't pulling his weight and hid behind the fact that it's hard to see what we do.

i can pull 2k hps on tanks atm. Your disc priest obviously wasn't doing his job right.

Post by Panik8

tl;dr version at the bottom... WoT inc... You've been warned.

---

Let's assume everyone's role, correct me if I'm wrong...

Pally: Heal tanks, keep beacon on one, heal the other, with occasional spot heal on raid when both tanks are filled and not expected to take big damage within a matter of seconds.

Priest: Priority on keeping tanks shielded and healed, help the Druid with raid heals by PW:Sing people who stand in the fire and maybe Renew them too. Extra healing on raid if absolutely necessary only. Should keep his Power Infusion CD for himself and Pain Suppression CD for the tanks in case the Pally gets spiked.

Druid: Heal raid while keeping his HoTs on tank and generally assisting on tanks if either tank healers get spiked.

Now... As soon as people stand in the fire too much, the Druid will probably struggle (to some extent) and the Disc Priest might lose his focus that should be on tanks and actually focus on the raid, by PW:Sing people taking damage, which, in itself isn't bad, as long as the tanks are covered, however, if RNG makes it so that a healer gets spiked while people stand in the fire (or shortly before or after), the healers won't have much time to recover and shift focus to the right targets.

Don't forget the instance just came out, everyone has to learn the fights and some people simply learn faster than others. Luck is always something to consider (well, bad luck is, actually). If people fail by standing in the fire, than healers fail by shifting their focus to the raid too much, letting the tanks go a little low, and then, either healer gets spiked, you're pretty much screwed, or can be, depending on how fast your healers can recover. Also, try to assign healers to heal the other healers if they get spiked. You don't want both remaining healers to heal the spiked healer, because then, no one's watching the tanks... Have the Druid be responsible for healing both other healers if they get spiked, then the Priest responsible for healing the Druid if he gets spiked.

Oh, and as far as Recount is concerned, 1.2k HPS means nothing, considering it's the number for the entire fight while what you want to know is who failed at the moment the tank died, what you want to be looking at is the "Deaths" tab of Recount, if you click on someone on that tab, it'll show you a list of their deaths, click on a specific one to see a log of damage/healing received in the few seconds prior to his death. If you see the Paladin's heals up to the point when he got spiked, but then see no more incoming heals, your Disc failed by healing the Pally instead of healing the tanks... Well, probably, anyways...

Bottom line is Recount is a great tool, but there's no point at looking at numbers if you can't understand them or don't understand how the classes work. As a RL, I'd suggest you get Recount GuessedAbsorbs, if only to see if the Disc Priests who run with you really are doing their job as they pretend they are. My "Healing Done + Guessed Absorbs" ALWAYS is higher than "Healing Done" of other healers, simply because GuessedAbsorbs won't take "overshields" into account like Recount does for overhealing, what this means is it will count every PW:S as having potentially abosorbed all the damage they could, which won't be the case if your Priest is shielding Raid people that aren't taking damage.

We did it with a Pally healer on tanks, me as Holy on raid and a Resto Shammy also on raid. Me and the Shammy would still keep our Renew/PoM/Earth Shield/Riptide for helping on the tanks and we'd generally try to heal raid members closer to us (with me standing on the west side and Shaman standing on the east side to make sure the raid members which should be spread out are always in range of either healer). When our Pally got spiked, I simply Guardian Spirited the tank that didn't have Earth Shield and things went well... I think having all 3 healers pay attention to tanks is primordial, especially during spikes. Having everyone stand out of the fire is also obviously very helpful as it will make it way easier for your healers to make all the decisions they should be making during a 10m+ fight (dealing with the pressure is easier with less pressure...).

---

tl;dr: If looking at Recount to see what healer failed after a wipe, look at the Deaths tab, not the Healing Done tab, especially if you're looking at a Disc Priest's efficiency. Remember numbers for an entire fight won't tell you who failed in the crucial 5-10 seconds that lead to the tank's death. Make sure healers know their assignments/priorities/assigned area.

Post by maverikku

Post by Panik8

Priest: Priority on keeping tanks shielded and healed, help the Druid with raid heals by PW:Sing people who stand in the fire and maybe Renew them too. Extra healing on raid if absolutely necessary only. Should keep his Power Infusion CD for himself and Pain Suppression CD for the tanks in case the Pally gets spiked.

I like to use PI on caster dps, outside of heroism of course.

So do I, when I can afford to, however, in Progression raid, I keep all my CDs to myself, unless DPS is an issue (enrage timers). In this particular case, if the Disc Priests PIs himself during the time the Pally healer is spiked, he'll be able to cover for his absence much easier.

tl;dr: If looking at Recount to see what healer failed after a wipe, look at the Deaths tab, not the Healing Done tab, especially if you're looking at a Disc Priest's efficiency. Remember numbers for an entire fight won't tell you who failed in the crucial 5-10 seconds that lead to the tank's death. Make sure healers know their assignments/priorities/assigned area.

Sound advice with the Deaths tab. But, just a small side note.... my renew does something like 500hps. So, if all I did was renew the two tanks Id be nearly matching his HPS... So you cant hang a disc priest by recounts numbers, but you can certainly tell when something isnt right. If he was losing focus to heal the raiders standing in fire it should be evident by a higher HPS...

Well, don't forget that your Renew ticks might land while their target are at full HP, so while a single Renew's HPS potential is around 500 HPS, effectively, it will almost always be lower than that (as low as 0, if the Pally is doing his job perfectly...). 1.2k HPS is still low and something IS wrong, but there are variables that aren't mentionned here that prevent us from telling what the exact problem is. Looking at the Healing Done tab, you can click on a healer's name to see what spell they used and who they've mostly been healing, those are numbers that are also way more pertinent than actual HPS for the entire fight.

Post by maverikku

Overhealing doesnt affect recounts raw HPS count, does it?

Post by Panik8

Overhealing doesnt affect recounts raw HPS count, does it?

Recount has two tabs for healing (three with Guessed Absorbs)...

Healing Done - Net healing, excluding overhealing
Overhealing - Self explanatory
Guessed Absorbs - Merely a calculation based on crits proccing DA and occurences of Glyph of PW:S heal (multiplied by 5 to guesstimate the actual shielding done), both of which are unreliable and won't take into account "over-mitigation" (if a shield doesn't absorb all the damage it could before it fades)

Older versions of the addon had a tab for total healing (healing done + overhealing), but I haven't seen that tab in a couple of years...?

Here's a quote from Recount's FAQ @ http://www.wowace.com/addons/recount/

Q: Can you add effective heals to Recount?
A: Everything that Recount displays as healing is what other addons call "effective healing". I.e. numbers that you see displayed as healing never contain the overhealing component.

Edit: However, in the summary view ( example at http://www.wowace.com/addons/recount/images/9-summary-view/ ), you get to see Raw (Total) Healing done.

Also, have a look at http://www.wowace.com/addons/recount/images/10-death-window/ if you're unfamiliar with the Death log. In that example, you can clearly see all that happened for the 8 seconds preceding the person's death, in this case, no healing was done whatsoever, since it was only done to provide an example, but you get the idea... That window is what you want to look at first when there's a fail. If a DPS failed, you see what killed it, if a tank fails, you see what healers were actually healing him when he died, etc... Then, once you know who to blame, you can use other tabs to analyze his play and try to figure out how he can do his job better...

Post by maverikku

Interesting. Never really looked into it beyond a mere glance, tbh. I keep recount to track fail dps, deaths, and interrupters. ;)

Post by 117913

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by MagisterSJHC

Ok, we went back there today with 2 new healers (we didnt kill him first time, so were not saved), and needed two tries only: one to learn (for the new people) and one to kill.

Although I can't prove it on Recount, this particular Disc priest just is fail...
But thanks to everyone here who took the time and effort to explain and clarify.

Post by 233098

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by 117913

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by 422346

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by 489425

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by 453787

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Question on the disc priests healing

Post Reply