Post by Salt
Over the past few weeks I've been researching and getting ready for BWL.
This may sound nuts, and that is totally understandable.
To be honest, I am after a single drop.
Styleen's Impending Scarab
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=19431I know that this drop does not come from Razorgore, but he is the first boss. He is the key to proving that BWL content is doable with a small number of equipped 70s.
So, here's the question.
The research I've done on Razorgore has shown that he has a few phases.
Phase 1. A group member (tank recommended) controls Razorgore while he destroys a group of eggs in the first room.
-The MC breaks periodically. The MCer must reclick the orb at certain times in order to keep the process going. The MC puts a 60sec debuff on the MCer. The MC lasts 90 seconds.
-During the MC, a group of mobs (including the controller) are killed.
-Also during the MC groups of mobs spawn. These mobs consist of orcs and dragonkin. These groups are usually killed and kited during the egg breaking process.
-Once all of the eggs are destroyed, the remaining mobs flee and Razorgore heals to full.
-The raid engages Razorgore.
So, that means that a smaller group of players would have a tough time downing the amount of mobs that spawn. They spawn in four corners, which would be difficult to deal with.
BUT!
Strategy 1:
During the MC process, Razorgore can do an AoE spell which will draw agro. The orcs do a ton of damage on the boss, and most groups fear his pre-mature death. This would mean that his AoE would be towards the end of the fight and used to stop DPS on the raid while the last few eggs are destroyed.
But wait, could a 70 10-man out heal the DPS while Razorgore destoryed the eggs? If so, that would allow the MCer to destroy the eggs while the rest of the raid focused on DPSing specific mobs down.
That seems a bit too difficult, and it would rely on the boss having enough hp and time to destroy the eggs.
OR
Between MCs the boss attacks the controller. He does not drops agro on the MCer.
Is he attackable during this portion of the fight?
Meaning:
Could a raid of high DPS (70 10man) take out Razorgore before the adds had time to populate the area? Could a smart group keep the MT up while the adds spawned? Is the number of adds set? If Razorgore dies before the eggs are broken, do the waves stop? Or do they respawn infinitely? Does the door close while the fight is going on?
In short, can Razorgore be killed after one MC in which the controller and his adds are destroyed?
Let me know. I'm very interested in clearing BWL with a 10man.
Post by Aeliel
You don't have to kill all the spawns, you just have to survive them until the eggs are gone.
Quite.
If he can be 3-manned I would say he can be 10-manned. :)
(But no, "just kill him without destroying the eggs" doesn't work.)
Vaelastrasz is 10-mannable, too, I would imagine - we got him to 1% (grrrr) with 7 people (rogue x3, lock, priest, feral druid, prot warrior), though we've not been back since.
Granted, the warrior and priest I 3-manned Razorgore with were geared to the teeth (T6 level), and so were the rest of the people we asked the help of on Vael.
Beyond that, we've not gone. If we eventually go back to kill Vael, we'll probably go with a 10-man, so we can avoid complicated strategies and just burn him down. Then we'll probably just proceed through BWL with the usual 3-man, to see how far we can go.
Which isn't really helpful, I know - but Razorgore and Vael at least are definitely 10-mannable, though I would imagine it depends on your gear.
Note that you'll most likely need specialized gear:
- Vael pretty much requires heavy FR on your tanks, unless you want to go the "tank him with rogues with Evasion and CloS" route (his fire breath still hits for 3500+ direct, nevermind the stacking DoT it leaves behind). Might be outhealable if you've got more than just one healer, I dunno; but back at 60, FR was definitely used.
- The three drakes (one of which drops the trinket you're after) require Onyxia Scale Cloak on the tanks.
- Ebonroc might or might not require SR gear; it was useful at 60, at any rate. (We've not tried him, so...)
- Nefarian (if you want to go that far; you might not, if the only thing you're after is the trinket) requires Onyxia Scale Cloak on everybody.
Mobs keep spawning until the max is reached. It is 52 mobs-
12 dragonkin
40 orcs- mages and melee combined
From my experience (keep in mind this is from a 3-manning perspective, if you're 10-manning you'll have DPS actively working on killing spawns, so it might vary):
- We didn't kite; the warrior just tanked every mob. I've seen a video of a 5-man Razorgore which utilized the same strategy, as well (just with a paladin tank).
- Whoever is controlling Razorgore usually has the time, between destroying eggs, to keep at the very least two dragonkin chain-slept via Calm Dragonkin.
I tried juggling three, and even four, but found that as I ran around the room I'd lose sight of them and lose track of how long to go until they stopped being slept - so they'd go chew on the healer instead. So I built myself a macros and just worked with two - set a dragonkin as focus, the other I just targeted, and alternated between sleeping the two (using a macro to sleep the focus so I wouldn't lose the target). - Keep in mind that even if you just tank them, and you reach the saturation point of 52 mobs, some mobs will eventually die, depending on what you do. In the video I saw of a 5-man Razorgore, mobs tended to slowly die to Consecration (and as such, got replaced); on our 3-man, mages kept dying (because the warrior was using spellreflect when he could).
A 70 tank in avoidance gear will avoid a huge amount of attacks, considering that the adds are level 60ish.
Indeed. Make sure your tank positions himself with his back to the wall / a convenient corner, though, otherwise
