Spriest's Solace and Insanity 5.2

Post by Dragonzero

Ok... Power Word:Solace change to Solace and Insanity on 5.2 and so I have a question for those about shadow priest.

How are we keep shadow orbs after cast Devouring Plague then cast Mind Flay for those Insanity?

DP say "Consumes all of the caster's Shadow Orbs"
Insanity say "increases the damage of Mind Flay by 33% per orb consumed"

Now it got me confused when I casted DP then I have no shadow orbs for increases the dmg of mind flay. So... I think that need to Mind Blast once to gain shadow orb then cast Mind Flay and that is the only way make insanity work.

is that right?

Post by Serael

I don't think so.

From the sound of it, reading the tooltips, casting DP will consume all of your orbs, and then automatically buff the next Mind Flay that you cast, based on the number of Shadow Orbs that were consumed by DP.

So if you have two Shadow Orbs up and then cast DP, the next time you cast Mind Flay, it would do 66% extra damage.

The tooltip could be made clearer, though. It's not stated whether the talent affects a single Mind Flay following a DP, or all Mind Flays within a certain time frame, or if the damage buff to Mind Flay will drop off if not used within a certain period of time.

Post by Dragonzero

Post by 246431

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Dragonzero

thank for try out on ptr

Post by Nooska

If it works as a secondary effect of DP it will only last for as long as DP is on the target (regardless of when you started your MF cast). Debuffs on the target is calculated for every tick of damage.

Post by TheRazorsEdge

Whether or not it lasts through the entire MF channel will probably be important for DPS. If so, it would be optimal to start another MF in the last second of DP.

I don't have a priest on the PTR to confirm one way or the other, but it will be trivial to test once 5.2 goes live.

Post by Qtena

The real question is whether it provides dmg increase compared to the other 2 options - Mindbender / instant free spikes + instant MB.

As a passive talent, it´s the right choice by all means for SPriests who feel their rota is too complicated (and heals with an occasional 2nd dmg spec). You have less things to worry about and less buttons to press. Stack your orbs to three, do the plague and enjoy a buffed mind flay.

Post by DroRaz

The instant free mind spikes will no longer count for Charred Glyph as of 5.2, just so you know. This makes Surge of Light a little worse than the 5.1 version, though I'm not sure how worse.

Post by Severage

As DroRaz said you only get Instant Free Spikes now. I wouldn't say having free spikes is no longer viable, because it is, but Insanity is likely the better choice.

Depends on the fight though probably - for dummy DPS Insanity is almost definitely a DPS increase. For movement fights, it might be hard to tell, since that renders SW:P, and SW:D our only instant-cast spells (and nothing we would use more than once or twice in a movement phase) other than DP, which you would definitely not want to use on the move since you couldn't benefit from Insanity.

I now use Power Infusion over free Mind Blasts from SW:P, and Insanity over Surge of Light. My DPS is more burst-y now, and I plan on using that after movement phases to bring up my average DPS to be fair in upcoming raids.

Fact is fact though, and for RDPS Spriests and Boomkins look like they will suffer the most in movement phases - but if Insanity bursts with PI/Trink do enough, we might be able to level out.

Post by Onijitsu

I guess the thing I question about Insanity is whether it will really be better than the other two options. How often do you get off a full and complete Mind Flay anymore? Especially, if you are multidotting targets.

I'm hoping one of the eggheads will sim it and come back with some somewhat good numbers on how these all compare.

Post by Severage

That'd be nice, in my experience Solace and Insanity + Power Infusion does better Patchwerk DPS than the alternatives, that's for sure.

How it affects raids, I've got no idea. I don't run raids over and over with different talents just to check out numbers...lol

I have run HoF since 5.2, and I was able to almost always get the best out of my Insanity, you just have to use DBM. Without DBM, you'll probably use DP the moment one of the mechanics trigger. I managed roughly 65k DPS on Vizier Zor'lok, only out-dps'd by a Ret pally pulling 71K.

Post by Onijitsu

Okay, I've tried it in raiding situations, in dungeons, and out questing (Isle of Thunder). It basically turns your Mind Flay into an evil laser beam.

The problems are these:

You have less mobility, overall. You have to stop and continually channel Mind Flay x2 (roughly) to get the full benefit of Insanity. This can present problems in fights where you have to be on the move, stacking/dispersing and generally getting out of the Poo.
For world mobs, and many raid/dungeon trash mobs, it is a lot of freaking damage... you may be wasting it on them. (Unless you need to kill something very quickly)
Which means, you kinda want to save PW:I for "high value" targets. Usually, the main boss, in order to get your money's worth.

I don't hate it. I'm just not used to it yet. It's a bit awkward for me still, and makes multidotting a bit more complicated. PW:I gives you a more single-target focus, for sure.

And, I'm trying to figure out some things like:

If Mind Blast has come off CD, even though I'm at 3 orbs, should I be popping it just before doing PW:I? (Just so I don't waste the CD on Mind Blast)
If Mind Blast comes off CD mid-PW;I, do I want to stop and pop it, and then resume Mind Flay? (Again, so I don't waste the CD on Mind Blast... and, so I can begin building up to my next PW:I as fast as possible)

I have been trying to pay attention to my results with different methods, but haven't found one way to be clearly better than the others yet.

Post by Severage

If Mind Blast has come off CD, even though I'm at 3 orbs, should I be popping it just before doing PW:I? (Just so I don't waste the CD on Mind Blast)

I'm assuming by PW:I you mean Insanity? And when you use Devouring Plague, you can get off 3x Mind Flays (Insanity), since you can use Mind Flay again (possibly clipping your last mind flay) right as DP runs out, and it gives you the full effect of the Mind Flay. This may be fixed soon.

That said you have to sit still for some 9 seconds instead of 6, so Mind Blast will definitely be off CD even if you just used it before Devouring Plague. Thus, even with 3 Shadow Orbs, yes, use Mind Blast. It's just a waste of a CD if you don't. You'll be able to use Mind blast again the moment your insanity wears off, resulting in nice burst DPS.

If Mind Blast comes off CD mid-PW;I, do I want to stop and pop it, and then resume Mind Flay? (Again, so I don't waste the CD on Mind Blast... and, so I can begin building up to my next PW:I as fast as possible)

That doesn't happen very often...since it's how you charge Shadow Orbs, I'd assume that only happens when SW:D is available. If you consider the damage, it's very situational. Mind Blast (for me) does about twice (maybe slightly more) the damage of one PW:I Mind Flay tick, assuming both are non-crit.

This would greatly depend on when your DP will run out. If you can cast Mind Blast and resume PW:I before your DP goes out, yes, use Mind Blast. If your DP will run out in less than 3 seconds (A little less than 1/2 of DP's duration), I would continue PW:I and wait to use Mind Blast.

It can be hard to control in multi-DoTs, since you are basically forced to Mind Flay when you don't want to, or when you want to refresh DoTs, but I have not suffered any Multi-DoT DPS decrease since using PW:I, only single-target increase. I think PW:I's sheer single-target will make up for a couple seconds of losing DoTs.

However, for quest mobs, you are correct, you can waste half of your DP because it's too much burst damage and you end up killing the mob too quickly. For any mob with over 1M HP however, it's been better in almost all scenarios for me.

edit: Other than that, Spriests have always suffered (Like Boomkins) with mobility. Less so in 5.0/5.1, but after the glyph nerf (which GC was all like "Bah this nerf is tiny and will mostly affect PvP", even though we would have to stand still anyway), you might as well do more damage for sitting still since you'll have to sit still more than anyone else anyway.

All I can say on that is, DBM is your friend. If you see a mechanic coming up you'll have to move in, don't start throwing DPs off. Throw down an Angelic Feather or something if you need to get somewhere quickly, or start moving ahead of time where you need to go. Knowing what will happen before it does is key to having to stand still to DPS.

Spriest's Solace and Insanity 5.2

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